News   Dec 13, 2019
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YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

Northern Light

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Service Plan for 2020 for YRT/VIVA is up now.

Plan Here: https://www.yrt.ca/en/about-us/resources/2020-Transit-Initiatives_PEF_web.pdf

Survey Here: https://forms.yrt.ca/PEF-Surveys/2020-Transit-Initiatives-Survey

Pretty pathetic overall. Some modest weekend improvements for Bathurst, some frequency improvements for VIVA Blue .....

But several service reductions.

Very little concrete move toward the Frequent Service Network on core services.

They are falling behind other suburban services in quality level.
 

cplchanb

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Service Plan for 2020 for YRT/VIVA is up now.

Plan Here: https://www.yrt.ca/en/about-us/resources/2020-Transit-Initiatives_PEF_web.pdf

Survey Here: https://forms.yrt.ca/PEF-Surveys/2020-Transit-Initiatives-Survey

Pretty pathetic overall. Some modest weekend improvements for Bathurst, some frequency improvements for VIVA Blue .....

But several service reductions.

Very little concrete move toward the Frequent Service Network on core services.

They are falling behind other suburban services in quality level.
huh dont know whats so bad about it. The reductions are due to low demand/ridership so it would make sense to adjust based on reality. What are you expecting in terms of concrete moves?
go from 25min to 15 min immediately?
 

Leo_Chan

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Service Plan for 2020 for YRT/VIVA is up now.

Plan Here: https://www.yrt.ca/en/about-us/resources/2020-Transit-Initiatives_PEF_web.pdf

Survey Here: https://forms.yrt.ca/PEF-Surveys/2020-Transit-Initiatives-Survey

Pretty pathetic overall. Some modest weekend improvements for Bathurst, some frequency improvements for VIVA Blue .....

But several service reductions.

Very little concrete move toward the Frequent Service Network on core services.

They are falling behind other suburban services in quality level.
Should be in the YRT Viva Service Thread, but good news that they’re increasing frequencies this time. It’s curious that 25 now terminates at Hwy 404 but 4 doesn’t.
 

Northern Light

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huh dont know whats so bad about it. The reductions are due to low demand/ridership so it would make sense to adjust based on reality. What are you expecting in terms of concrete moves?
go from 25min to 15 min immediately?
No.

What I expect is that over a reasonable period of years, let's say 5, you get a complete Frequent Service Grid up and running.

There are different ways to get there.

But I would argue for rush hour on all services in the proposed grid within 2 years, then weekday midday in year 3, weekday evening in year 4, weekends in year 5.

There's no magic in that. A different order/arrangement of improvements would be fine. But at their current pace, the Frequent Service Network won't be delivered til the late 2040s...

That is not acceptable.

If they simply brought one route per year all the way into the network that would be defensible.

But they aren't.

They are far from achieving respectable service for a region of their size

Mississauga is introducing 24-hour service, and adding 3% more service per year. Brampton has likewise invested in much better service.


183016


Look at those differences:

Mississauga's Revenue Hours per capita are literally 50% higher.

No surprisingly, ridership per capita is more than double what YRT does.

Brampton's numbers are only slightly lower in service hours, but the speed of improvement there has substantial.

Among its true peers, Which would be Hamilton, Miss., Brampton and Durham, YRT has the 2nd lowest service hours per capita.

Durham's current service plans will have them overtake YRT within a few years.

Their rate of increase has been anemic since about 2016 or so........

Some of the cuts are defensible, but others show lessening weekday service on major corridors that are today at 15m service and reducing that to 17 or 19, that's indefensible and is moving away from the Frequent service strategy, rather than towards it.

* mods feel free to relocate this post series to the YRT service thread if so desired.
 

cplchanb

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No.

What I expect is that over a reasonable period of years, let's say 5, you get a complete Frequent Service Grid up and running.

There are different ways to get there.

But I would argue for rush hour on all services in the proposed grid within 2 years, then weekday midday in year 3, weekday evening in year 4, weekends in year 5.

There's no magic in that. A different order/arrangement of improvements would be fine. But at their current pace, the Frequent Service Network won't be delivered til the late 2040s...

That is not acceptable.

If they simply brought one route per year all the way into the network that would be defensible.

But they aren't.

They are far from achieving respectable service for a region of their size

Mississauga is introducing 24-hour service, and adding 3% more service per year. Brampton has likewise invested in much better service.


Look at those differences:

Mississauga's Revenue Hours per capita are literally 50% higher.

No surprisingly, ridership per capita is more than double what YRT does.

Brampton's numbers are only slightly lower in service hours, but the speed of improvement there has substantial.

Among its true peers, Which would be Hamilton, Miss., Brampton and Durham, YRT has the 2nd lowest service hours per capita.

Durham's current service plans will have them overtake YRT within a few years.

Their rate of increase has been anemic since about 2016 or so........

Some of the cuts are defensible, but others show lessening weekday service on major corridors that are today at 15m service and reducing that to 17 or 19, that's indefensible and is moving away from the Frequent service strategy, rather than towards it.

* mods feel free to relocate this post series to the YRT service thread if so desired.
Thing is though, ridership after rush hours are usually way down to the point where they would probably lose money if they kept 15 min rush from start to end of service. RH and Markham arent exactly like Miss because their urban centres are really spread out and people tend to drive alot more as well. Downtown Markham and RH isnt as dense as DT Mississauga. The table is a bit skewed because it doesnt appreciate the fact that YRT covers a substantially larger area than Brampton or Mississuaga. If would make more sense if it was compared to all of Peel transits put together like a PRT. Not to mention the really far off areas have very low ridership. TTC didnt turn into a frequent network in 5 years as well.
 

Northern Light

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Thing is though, ridership after rush hours are usually way down to the point where they would probably lose money if they kept 15 min rush from start to end of service.
Yes, they would. The vast majority of bus service loses money, even in Toronto.

But when you improve service, both in span and frequency at all times of day, you get more people out of their cars, they elect to use transit more because its convenient and reliable.

That in turn increases ridership, which lowers the per ride loss. You can't get higher ridership by lower service levels, that never works.

The table is a bit skewed because it doesnt appreciate the fact that YRT covers a substantially larger area than Brampton or Mississuaga. If would make more sense if it was compared to all of Peel transits put together like a PRT. Not to mention the really far off areas have very low ridership.
Not really.

If you combine Brampton and Miss. you get a land area of around 450sq km2

By contrast, if you combine Vaughan, Markham and Richmond Hill you get about 580km2; but the latter includes rural lands w/next to no service.

The bulk of York's population, aside from Newmarket is found in only the portion of Markham west of 9th line, and excludes some northern and western bits of Vaughan as well.

This makes the land area for the vast majority of the transit service highly comparable. The population of those 2 areas is highly comparable as well.

Yes Miss. does have more density nodes, that's fair. But that is changing in York and in part is a chicken/egg game where one has to make transit a viable choice to attract higher density.

Brampton is more like York though, w/relatively few pockets of higher density.

TTC didnt turn into a frequent network in 5 years as well.
The TTC has not such abysmal service on major corridors in my lifetime.

The TTC's current Frequent Network also used a higher standard than York's (every 10m service or better)[/quote][/QUOTE]
 

ShonTron

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They are far from achieving respectable service for a region of their size

Mississauga is introducing 24-hour service, and adding 3% more service per year. Brampton has likewise invested in much better service.


View attachment 183016

Look at those differences:

Mississauga's Revenue Hours per capita are literally 50% higher.

No surprisingly, ridership per capita is more than double what YRT does.

Brampton's numbers are only slightly lower in service hours, but the speed of improvement there has substantial.

Among its true peers, Which would be Hamilton, Miss., Brampton and Durham, YRT has the 2nd lowest service hours per capita.

Durham's current service plans will have them overtake YRT within a few years.

Their rate of increase has been anemic since about 2016 or so........

Some of the cuts are defensible, but others show lessening weekday service on major corridors that are today at 15m service and reducing that to 17 or 19, that's indefensible and is moving away from the Frequent service strategy, rather than towards it.

* mods feel free to relocate this post series to the YRT service thread if so desired.
How old is that table? Brampton's ridership in 2018 was over 31 million.
 

Leo_Chan

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Here some photos I taken from the Highway 7 and Yonge Connector Road near Richmond Hill Centre Terminal.
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It appears that the shared bike paths are one-way only based on the side of the street they are on. What I'm curious about it why there's only one direction allowed at the northern-most crosswalk. Does this mean that there will be there will be a two-way bike path and/or sidewalk on the north side of the road west of the terminal for the Yonge Rapidway section of the project? Here's an illustration (Black - Existing, Red - Assumption, Yellow - I wish they will have this):
Yonge Connector Road Bike.png
 
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cplchanb

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Got an email newsletter from viva next this morning. Apparently the stretch from bathurst to rhc has finished 3 months early. Can anyone confirm this as the vivanext website had only announced top pouring happening 2 days ago.
 

raptor

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Got an email newsletter from viva next this morning. Apparently the stretch from bathurst to rhc has finished 3 months early. Can anyone confirm this as the vivanext website had only announced top pouring happening 2 days ago.
 

cplchanb

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Now if ect can be like this.... utopian dreaming here......
 

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