YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[Northern Light]

huh dont know whats so bad about it. The reductions are due to low demand/ridership so it would make sense to adjust based on reality. What are you expecting in terms of concrete moves?
go from 25min to 15 min immediately?

No.

What I expect is that over a reasonable period of years, let's say 5, you get a complete Frequent Service Grid up and running.

There are different ways to get there.

But I would argue for rush hour on all services in the proposed grid within 2 years, then weekday midday in year 3, weekday evening in year 4, weekends in year 5.

There's no magic in that. A different order/arrangement of improvements would be fine. But at their current pace, the Frequent Service Network won't be delivered til the late 2040s...

That is not acceptable.

If they simply brought one route per year all the way into the network that would be defensible.

But they aren't.

They are far from achieving respectable service for a region of their size

Mississauga is introducing 24-hour service, and adding 3% more service per year. Brampton has likewise invested in much better service.

Look at those differences:

Mississauga's Revenue Hours per capita are literally 50% higher.

No surprisingly, ridership per capita is more than double what YRT does.

Brampton's numbers are only slightly lower in service hours, but the speed of improvement there has substantial.

Among its true peers, Which would be Hamilton, Miss., Brampton and Durham, YRT has the 2nd lowest service hours per capita.

Durham's current service plans will have them overtake YRT within a few years.

Their rate of increase has been anemic since about 2016 or so........

Some of the cuts are defensible, but others show lessening weekday service on major corridors that are today at 15m service and reducing that to 17 or 19, that's indefensible and is moving away from the Frequent service strategy, rather than towards it.

* mods feel free to relocate this post series to the YRT service thread if so desired.

 

[cplchanb]

No.

What I expect is that over a reasonable period of years, let's say 5, you get a complete Frequent Service Grid up and running.

There are different ways to get there.

But I would argue for rush hour on all services in the proposed grid within 2 years, then weekday midday in year 3, weekday evening in year 4, weekends in year 5.

There's no magic in that. A different order/arrangement of improvements would be fine. But at their current pace, the Frequent Service Network won't be delivered til the late 2040s...

That is not acceptable.

If they simply brought one route per year all the way into the network that would be defensible.

But they aren't.

They are far from achieving respectable service for a region of their size

Mississauga is introducing 24-hour service, and adding 3% more service per year. Brampton has likewise invested in much better service.


Look at those differences:

Mississauga's Revenue Hours per capita are literally 50% higher.

No surprisingly, ridership per capita is more than double what YRT does.

Brampton's numbers are only slightly lower in service hours, but the speed of improvement there has substantial.

Among its true peers, Which would be Hamilton, Miss., Brampton and Durham, YRT has the 2nd lowest service hours per capita.

Durham's current service plans will have them overtake YRT within a few years.

Their rate of increase has been anemic since about 2016 or so........

Some of the cuts are defensible, but others show lessening weekday service on major corridors that are today at 15m service and reducing that to 17 or 19, that's indefensible and is moving away from the Frequent service strategy, rather than towards it.

* mods feel free to relocate this post series to the YRT service thread if so desired.

Thing is though, ridership after rush hours are usually way down to the point where they would probably lose money if they kept 15 min rush from start to end of service. RH and Markham arent exactly like Miss because their urban centres are really spread out and people tend to drive alot more as well. Downtown Markham and RH isnt as dense as DT Mississauga. The table is a bit skewed because it doesnt appreciate the fact that YRT covers a substantially larger area than Brampton or Mississuaga. If would make more sense if it was compared to all of Peel transits put together like a PRT. Not to mention the really far off areas have very low ridership. TTC didnt turn into a frequent network in 5 years as well.

 

[Northern Light]

Thing is though, ridership after rush hours are usually way down to the point where they would probably lose money if they kept 15 min rush from start to end of service.

Yes, they would. The vast majority of bus service loses money, even in Toronto.

But when you improve service, both in span and frequency at all times of day, you get more people out of their cars, they elect to use transit more because its convenient and reliable.

That in turn increases ridership, which lowers the per ride loss. You can't get higher ridership by lower service levels, that never works.

The table is a bit skewed because it doesnt appreciate the fact that YRT covers a substantially larger area than Brampton or Mississuaga. If would make more sense if it was compared to all of Peel transits put together like a PRT. Not to mention the really far off areas have very low ridership.

Not really.

If you combine Brampton and Miss. you get a land area of around 450sq km2

By contrast, if you combine Vaughan, Markham and Richmond Hill you get about 580km2; but the latter includes rural lands w/next to no service.

The bulk of York's population, aside from Newmarket is found in only the portion of Markham west of 9th line, and excludes some northern and western bits of Vaughan as well.

This makes the land area for the vast majority of the transit service highly comparable. The population of those 2 areas is highly comparable as well.

Yes Miss. does have more density nodes, that's fair. But that is changing in York and in part is a chicken/egg game where one has to make transit a viable choice to attract higher density.

Brampton is more like York though, w/relatively few pockets of higher density.

TTC didnt turn into a frequent network in 5 years as well.

The TTC has not such abysmal service on major corridors in my lifetime.

The TTC's current Frequent Network also used a higher standard than York's (every 10m service or better)[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[ShonTron]

They are far from achieving respectable service for a region of their size

Mississauga is introducing 24-hour service, and adding 3% more service per year. Brampton has likewise invested in much better service.


View attachment 183016

Look at those differences:

Mississauga's Revenue Hours per capita are literally 50% higher.

No surprisingly, ridership per capita is more than double what YRT does.

Brampton's numbers are only slightly lower in service hours, but the speed of improvement there has substantial.

Among its true peers, Which would be Hamilton, Miss., Brampton and Durham, YRT has the 2nd lowest service hours per capita.

Durham's current service plans will have them overtake YRT within a few years.

Their rate of increase has been anemic since about 2016 or so........

Some of the cuts are defensible, but others show lessening weekday service on major corridors that are today at 15m service and reducing that to 17 or 19, that's indefensible and is moving away from the Frequent service strategy, rather than towards it.

* mods feel free to relocate this post series to the YRT service thread if so desired.

How old is that table? Brampton's ridership in 2018 was over 31 million.

 

[Northern Light]

How old is that table? Brampton's ridership in 2018 was over 31 million.

Not sure to be honest, it was from one of the YRT plans, but I can't recall how current.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Here some photos I taken from the Highway 7 and Yonge Connector Road near Richmond Hill Centre Terminal.

It appears that the shared bike paths are one-way only based on the side of the street they are on. What I'm curious about it why there's only one direction allowed at the northern-most crosswalk. Does this mean that there will be there will be a two-way bike path and/or sidewalk on the north side of the road west of the terminal for the Yonge Rapidway section of the project? Here's an illustration (Black - Existing, Red - Assumption, Yellow - I wish they will have this):

 

[cplchanb]

Got an email newsletter from viva next this morning. Apparently the stretch from bathurst to rhc has finished 3 months early. Can anyone confirm this as the vivanext website had only announced top pouring happening 2 days ago.

 

[raptor]

Got an email newsletter from viva next this morning. Apparently the stretch from bathurst to rhc has finished 3 months early. Can anyone confirm this as the vivanext website had only announced top pouring happening 2 days ago.

Viva Bus Rapid Transit Segment Opens Three Months Ahead of Schedule on Highway 7 in Richmond Hill and Vaughan

RICHMOND HILL and VAUGHAN, ON - Today Wayne Emmerson, Chairman and CEO, The Regional Municipality of York; and Phil Verster, President and CEO, Metrolinx, announced the early opening of a 2.6-kilometre segment of Viva bus rapid transit (rapidway) along Highway 7, from Bathurst Street to Richmond...

www.vivanext.com

 

[cplchanb]

Viva Bus Rapid Transit Segment Opens Three Months Ahead of Schedule on Highway 7 in Richmond Hill and Vaughan

RICHMOND HILL and VAUGHAN, ON - Today Wayne Emmerson, Chairman and CEO, The Regional Municipality of York; and Phil Verster, President and CEO, Metrolinx, announced the early opening of a 2.6-kilometre segment of Viva bus rapid transit (rapidway) along Highway 7, from Bathurst Street to Richmond...

www.vivanext.com

Now if ect can be like this.... utopian dreaming here......

 

[Neutrino]

Do they mean this segment?

 

[ViveleCanada]

Do they mean this segment?

View attachment 205124

Yes, their talking about that segment. The segment actually looked ready to open in January so I'm surprised its just opening now. Overall, I was rather happy with the construction of VIVA. There was minimal delay and controversy for most projects (Cornell will probably be the exception given the rate its progressing at) and it largely delivered what was promised. It's a nice change compared to the other projects in Toronto.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Do they mean this segment?

View attachment 205124

Um, it's physically impossible to turn from Highway 7 directly onto Yonge ?. The Rapidway ends that Highway 7 - Yonge Connecting Road.But it is basically the same distance from your last marker.

 

[Neutrino]

^Yeah lol meant that

 

[lead82]

Here some photos I taken from the Highway 7 and Yonge Connector Road near Richmond Hill Centre Terminal.
View attachment 197520View attachment 197521View attachment 197522View attachment 197523View attachment 197524View attachment 197526View attachment 197527View attachment 197528View attachment 197529View attachment 197530View attachment 197531View attachment 197532
View attachment 197519View attachment 197533

It appears that the shared bike paths are one-way only based on the side of the street they are on. What I'm curious about it why there's only one direction allowed at the northern-most crosswalk. Does this mean that there will be there will be a two-way bike path and/or sidewalk on the north side of the road west of the terminal for the Yonge Rapidway section of the project? Here's an illustration (Black - Existing, Red - Assumption, Yellow - I wish they will have this):
View attachment 197535

Beautiful new infrastructure. Who in their right mind would bike or walk on highway 7 where cars blast by at over 100km/hr and the posted limit is barely ever followed.

 

[ViveleCanada]

Beautiful new infrastructure. Who in their right mind would bike or walk on highway 7 where cars blast by at over 100km/hr and the posted limit is barely ever followed.

I'm clearly one of the insane as I have biked up and down the completed section near VMC. The buffer marks make a huge difference in keeping an average cyclist feel somewhat safe. Overall, the bike lanes are pretty good in the summer and you don't really notice that cars/trucks are going 60 km/h faster than you, but they become useless in the winter as the plows pile the snow onto the bike lanes. The only nerve-wracking part of the bike lane is when the lane scoots to the left at the right turn queue, but gets easier once you get the hang of it. The bigger problem I see is that Highway 7 and Yonge aren't exactly flat so its somewhat of a deterrent for those who skipped leg day (hopefully e-scooters will solve this). Walking is much more pleasurable compared to before and, personally, it feels a bit more protected now that the hydro poles and planters sit between the sidewalk and the curb. A large section of Highway 7 in Woodbridge also only had a sidewalk on the north side before construction so already the pedestrian experience has been massively improved. Crossing intersections on Highway 7 or Yonge still feels like swimming with sharks given how wide the road has gotten, but I'm pretty sure the motorists and councilors would have put the brakes on the project even with just a mention of reducing lanes.