YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[Sunnyside]

I don't disagree that the province can do that, however I'm thinking of policy that directly ties service spending to provincial funding. So "you can spend how much you like on running all other busses, but as long as we're spending x amount of money on these routes, you better run y service on them as well". There's no reason why the province should be concerned on how often YRT runs the 50 Queensway bus to Sutton.

Part of me thought that’s not entirely true, but I realized you can easily remedy this by tying provincial expectations to identified corridors on Metrolinx’s RTP. And identifying said corridors in the actual RTP, of course.

This would help with resolving the meaningless- ness of ‘priority bus corridors’. Lower-level, but unified, actionable expectations. Create a provincial standard for routes that carry enough ridership/potential ridership, without creating an expectation for RT upgrades (free money). Most of the usual Toronto Avenues suspects would make such a list in my mind- VP, Lawrence E & W, Finch, Steeles, and so on.

 

[micheal_can]

The government of Ontario should simply make clear to York, that there will be no infrastructure funding from the province, for anything in York, including the Line 1 extension until York has a frequent service network in place, with service every 10M or better in rush hours and every 15M or better at all other times.

That would get York's attention.

10M is not frequent. Even 5M is not frequent. For RT to be successful, especially during the rush times, it needs to be often enough that you do not need to know what time it is to catch it and make the connections to the other RT routes.

 

[Northern Light]

10M is not frequent. Even 5M is not frequent. For RT to be successful, especially during the rush times, it needs to be often enough that you do not need to know what time it is to catch it and make the connections to the other RT routes.

This is a statement so silly as to beggar belief. Please refrain from making confident assertions contrary to the facts and accordingly supported by no evidence at all.

 

[micheal_can]

This is a statement so silly as to beggar belief. Please refrain from making confident assertions contrary to the facts and accordingly supported by no evidence at all.

Take a look around at the various RTs in Canada. Most of the well used, and highly rated ones have better than 5 minute frequencies during the rush. The ones that are mocked tend to not have a good frequency.
For instance, what is the subway, metro, and Skytrain frequencies during the rush? Hint...5 minutes is the worst for them. So, please show me how the rest of Canada's RT is 10 minutes.

 

[Northern Light]

Take a look around at the various RTs in Canada. Most of the well used, and highly rated ones have better than 5 minute frequencies during the rush. The ones that are mocked tend to not have a good frequency.
For instance, what is the subway, metro, and Skytrain frequencies during the rush? Hint...5 minutes is the worst for them. So, please show me how the rest of Canada's RT is 10 minutes.

RTs?

Rapid Transits?

LRTs?

BRTs?

Metros?

What are you talking about, and how is this relevant to what you posted?

Also, I owe you nothing, you've made an assertion, and now more of those again without providing evidence. Once you provide some, in support of a clear thesis, we may be able to have a discussion.

****

Edit, what am I doing here? You're back on ignore........I haven't the faintest idea why I ever removed you from that.

 

[micheal_can]

RTs?

Rapid Transits?

LRTs?

BRTs?

Metros?

What are you talking about, and how is this relevant to what you posted?

Also, I owe you nothing, you've made an assertion, and now more of those again without providing evidence. Once you provide some, in support of a clear thesis, we may be able to have a discussion.

I use the term RT, because BRT is RT, so is LRT, and subways, metros and the Skytrain.. They are all supposed to be faster than driving and more frequent than a local bus.

SkyTrain (Vancouver) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Toronto subway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Montreal Metro - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now,I am not suggesting that it needs to be 2minutes 30 sections like Line 1, but 10minutes will not be usable for most people.
I did realize that it is you that I replied to. If you don't reply, I will stop. I know you and I do not see eye to eye on anything.

 

[chrisw]

This really isn't necessary at this point.

Jane is among YRT's best served routes, rivaling Yonge. But its still, mostly, an every 15M service.

You simply can't justify infrastructure at this cost and scale for anything less than the next bus is in sight during peak periods (every 5M or better), and every 10M at all but the most peripheral service periods.

Put another way, if you take the annualized expense of building this infrastructure and apply it to service, YRT service would improve dramatically and ridership could rise by as much as 30%.

Where as this will be lucky to boost ridership by 3% on a system-wide basis.

The Jane 320 express has quite decent service. Every 10 minutes throughout most of the day.

Agreed that YRT should invest more on service to increase ridership.

Though, these plans are also zoning plans to get more housing built. It's not just about system wide ridership. And it's going to take time to get funding and get it built. By then there'll be more ridership on the route.

 

[T3G]

10M is not frequent. Even 5M is not frequent. For RT to be successful, especially during the rush times, it needs to be often enough that you do not need to know what time it is to catch it and make the connections to the other RT routes.

LMAO, how is 5 minutes not frequent? I promise you the absolute majority of people will not balk at having to wait 5 minutes for the next service. It's a trivial length of time.

You don't make a "successful RT" by catering to fringe cases. If someone is turned off by using a service that runs every 5 minutes, they were never really interested in using transit in the first place. At that point we have to accept that these types of people will only be satisfied by driving. Despite what NUMTOTs and their ilk will tell you, it's not possible to stop everyone from driving. Point blank. If we took every random freak opinion into account, we would be building private subway stations under every house in the province, and buying private rolling stock for each person.

 

[dowlingm]

10 minute scheduled service is not frequent in itself, at least not as transit operations are managed in this region.
10 minute service that arrives every 9-11 minutes absent actual force majeure can be seen as frequent.

 

[dowlingm]

Ontario has absolute legislative authority over municipalities. This Premier has also shown a willingness to use or threaten to use those powers.

The province can legislate a minimum transit spend per resident in the GTA if it so chooses, or can mandate explicit service levels.

There are no shortage of options.

Is this government willing to push around bluer voting regions than the Toronto pinkos to that extent, though?

 

[Northern Light]

Is this government willing to push around bluer voting regions than the Toronto pinkos to that extent, though?

So far? No.

Lets also be frank, they often back down/reverse themselves; see Greenbelt, Urban Boundaries, some MZOs, and so far MTSAs.

Meanwhile they do push ahead with some things.......

One might call that the art of distraction..........

From a government that released the entire text of their agreement with Therme, then quietly moved to clearcut the West Island in the wee hours the very next day.

 

[micheal_can]

LMAO, how is 5 minutes not frequent? I promise you the absolute majority of people will not balk at having to wait 5 minutes for the next service. It's a trivial length of time.

You don't make a "successful RT" by catering to fringe cases. If someone is turned off by using a service that runs every 5 minutes, they were never really interested in using transit in the first place. At that point we have to accept that these types of people will only be satisfied by driving. Despite what NUMTOTs and their ilk will tell you, it's not possible to stop everyone from driving. Point blank. If we took every random freak opinion into account, we would be building private subway stations under every house in the province, and buying private rolling stock for each person.

There is a difference between a BRT that has one bus route that uses it and is scheduled on it vs a street with multiple buses running along it. Locally,I know of many place that along that major thoroughfare, even out of peak,a bus goes by every 5 minutes. So, if you are converting it to just1 bus the whole way then it needs to be that frequent as a minimum. Maybe I me understand what BRT is about, but my understanding is it is a way to get RT but with buses. That means the travel times and frequency need to be there. Otherwise, it is just a very expensive bus route.