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TTC: Streetcar Network

Streety McCarface

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T%he exit route you have chosen is the empty space because it is directly over the subway tracks. That's why it is unused. Are you sure they can actually build anything top of that? It been a while, but I also recall there being a grade change here too which would be a hindrance.
I don't have access to any of the engineering drawings or material properties, so no structural analysis on the entire station can be done. At this point, I'm just noting that there is space at the station for a streetcar line, but the station's bus terminal would require some modifications to enable for proper turning radii and fitting of Flexities. Space is constrained, yes, so the routing I proposed may not work, but those issues can be mitigated through another routing (which may include some expropriation). In terms of structural strengthening, if the line does indeed go over the subway, it might be necessary depending on the route one takes, but there's no way to consider that now when we don't have access to the data necessary to complete the structural analysis.
 

Streety McCarface

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Try again but with streetcar minimum curve radii and somewhere to put an accessible platform. That lane you are putting the Flexity down is maybe 5 meters wide even if you could get the Flexity to turn into it.

For the number of spaces involved, Green P lot would probably just get the predictable complaints from nearby traders rather than the War on the Car soldiers. I would have converted part of Danforth Garage (where the cops are going) to a Green P and put something in that space providing Danforth frontage to the subway. The bus terminal is presumably protected which limits some options there.
I measured the turn radius, it fits, but barely (I'm not sure of ArcGIS' accuracy here, but I presume it's within +-1m. Modifying the layout for it to fit there wouldn't be particularly challenging assuming it does reach the upper limit).
Screen Shot 2019-09-16 at 6.29.24 PM.png



There's more space between the station and Strathmore Avenue, so turning radius (I presume) won't be an issue there. Platform modifications and station modifications would be necessary for a route like this to work. Some expropriation may also be necessary (either one of the properties or some yardspace).
 

Bureaucromancer

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I think the Coxwell loop issue has really gotten over complicated by the streetcar expansion report wanting something underground. The dimensions of the existing station aren't ideal, but look doable in a pinch. That said, remember that there would only be one bus platform needed after restoring a Coxwell streetcar; if we sacrifice the ability for buses to pass each other in the loop and use the Green P lot it gets reasonably comfortable. There's a full 60 meters available between the Danforth frontage and Strathmore, which I suspect would allow a right off Strathmore and a north/south platform at about the mezzanine level before turning right onto Danforth. Even if there's enough vertical distance involved (which I don't have measurements of) to make that an unreasonably steep transition, an on street stop in the Danforth curb lane could fit a pair of cars albeit by putting the streetcars outside the fair paid zone.

The Danforth frontage is also fairly simple so long as the connection is made to the south end of the mezzanine. It also looks to me like there's enough space to move Danforth Division into, although I have yet to see site plans for the police division...

Coxwell.png
 

W. K. Lis

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I think the Coxwell loop issue has really gotten over complicated by the streetcar expansion report wanting something underground. The dimensions of the existing station aren't ideal, but look doable in a pinch. That said, remember that there would only be one bus platform needed after restoring a Coxwell streetcar; if we sacrifice the ability for buses to pass each other in the loop and use the Green P lot it gets reasonably comfortable. There's a full 60 meters available between the Danforth frontage and Strathmore, which I suspect would allow a right off Strathmore and a north/south platform at about the mezzanine level before turning right onto Danforth. Even if there's enough vertical distance involved (which I don't have measurements of) to make that an unreasonably steep transition, an on street stop in the Danforth curb lane could fit a pair of cars albeit by putting the streetcars outside the fair paid zone.

The Danforth frontage is also fairly simple so long as the connection is made to the south end of the mezzanine. It also looks to me like there's enough space to move Danforth Division into, although I have yet to see site plans for the police division...

View attachment 204563
With REAL transit priority traffic signals to control the entering and egressing of the streetcars, it would work. However, seeing how the Toronto Transportation Department currently handles transit priority signals along the streetcar right-of-ways and King Street, it will not happen.
 

W. K. Lis

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Try to remember. The suburban, anti-transit politicians seem to be doing their best worst in putting a stop to this...






You can read the entire PDF from this link. Best to download it, in case the powers-that-be try to erase this from history.

The "Official" website: https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/planning-development/planning-studies-initiatives/waterfront-transit-reset/
 
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rbt

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The value for taking Queens Quay past Dufferin seems quite low relative to cost.

Given the King transit zone is locked in (and Fort York/Bremner permanently killed as an option), I think I'd prefer a westward expansion of the King transit zone. Split 504A into 2 parts, sending half to Dundas West and half to Lake Shore. Terminate Queen at Roncessvalles.


Frankly, for the cost of the Waterfront West LRV plan you could fund ~50 years of a TTC fare (with free TTC/GO transfers) for Lake Shore, Mimico, and Park Lawn GO stations; then run a network of buses focusing on those stations. Lake Shore GO frequencies are pretty damn good all day long today, and will only get better.

Queen's Quay East has fewer alternatives.
 
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Reecemartin

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I know these are old but wanted to set the record straight . . .

Toronto should always have new lines under construction. The fact that they sit idle when there is a severe lack of transit is the real problem.

Right now, there is no subway extensions being built and no street car lines being extended or added. There is only 1 LRT line being built.
That's not good enough.
There is a ton currently in procurement, as well as a number of major projects set to improve our current network plus as was pointed out we actually currently have 2 LRT's at around 30kms long being built.


Mass transit costs money and if you haven't noticed we are one of the poorest countries in the world. We can't afford to build transit. We can however, afford hundreds of environmental reports, thousands of transit studies, endless political debates and discussions, not to mention the many hundred town hall meetings. All in the name of delaying transit, as it costs money to build. Take the example of the electrification of the GO train - this is still no closer to reality, than it was when it was first floated 4 decades ago. Don't quote me on anything..( XD)
Sorry but had to quote you, lots of progress HAS been made! The RFP has been issued and major companies are bidding.
 

felix123

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What on earth is going on on Dundas St? They seem to have just given up on it at this point. Buses have been a big mess as the 505 replacement.
 

felix123

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The city is doing work on the water lines on it
The new water main was installed months ago and they have finished flushing it. I wonder if something else is going on on Dundas, but as it stands there are a number of pits that remain dug out with seemingly no one on site anymore.
 

torontocolin

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The water main work is done, I believe, but the schedules were heavily padded to account for the construction delays and will only be fixed in the next revision.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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The new water main was installed months ago and they have finished flushing it. I wonder if something else is going on on Dundas, but as it stands there are a number of pits that remain dug out with seemingly no one on site anymore.
Probably different departments have to fill them in. Sometimes it seems like each department in the city doesn't know waht the other one is doing. A few nights ago when I was at work I watched them paint new lines at a stoplight, a few days later that side of the road has been torn up for repaving,
 

Racey

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How does the 510 Spadina make a right turn on Queen? Does it have a way of making the intersection all-red while it makes the turn?
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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How does the 510 Spadina make a right turn on Queen? Does it have a way of making the intersection all-red while it makes the turn?
I think 6the only streetcar intersection that doers that is at Fleet, Bathurst and lakeshore wher it goes red for the 509 to go from Bathurst to fleet street and from Fleet street to Bathurst
 

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