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TTC: Streetcar Network

Streety McCarface

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Have you ever been to Broadview station?
Broadview and Coxwell are two completely different cases. Broadview has to deal with streetcars from both the 505 and 504B, two of the busiest streetcar lines in the entire system. Coxwell is also far less busy than Broadview so there's less risk of running behind schedule or disturbing traffic. Remember, Coxwell would only see a streetcar at most every 10 minutes, so traffic slowdowns would occur but shouldn't significantly impact traffic.
 

Richard White

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Broadview and Coxwell are two completely different cases. Broadview has to deal with streetcars from both the 505 and 504B, two of the busiest streetcar lines in the entire system. Coxwell is also far less busy than Broadview so there's less risk of running behind schedule or disturbing traffic. Remember, Coxwell would only see a streetcar at most every 10 minutes.
Both however looop via sidestreets.
 

Streety McCarface

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They tie up traffic laying over on the sidestreets.
But if scheduling is done correctly, there is no reason they should be laying over on said sidestreets. If there's space to store at least 1 streetcar at Coxwell, layovers on side streets will barely happen and if there is room for 2 streetcars, theoretically, bunching should never happen at the terminals, again, because frequencies would be so low for a streetcar line, and because traffic wouldn't severely affect the schedules of the cars.

EDIT: For the record, streetcars would enter via the south alleyway, which has the potential to be used by 2 vehicles at any given time. Vehicles would exit onto Strathmore Blvd, meaning they would not be laying over there.
 

W. K. Lis

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There is a Green P lot just south of Coxwell Station, facing Danforth Avenue. The TTC could take PART of the Green P lot, if the northbound streetcar turned east on Danforth into the west side of the platform. Exiting via Strathmore Blvd. to turn south on Coxwell Avenue, the streetcar could do its return trip.

There would be objections from the automobile-addicted councillors from the suburbs, of course.
 

dowlingm

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I would just loop it like this:

Space is a concern but the station can be easily modified to fit the 30 meter beast.
Try again but with streetcar minimum curve radii and somewhere to put an accessible platform. That lane you are putting the Flexity down is maybe 5 meters wide even if you could get the Flexity to turn into it.

For the number of spaces involved, Green P lot would probably just get the predictable complaints from nearby traders rather than the War on the Car soldiers. I would have converted part of Danforth Garage (where the cops are going) to a Green P and put something in that space providing Danforth frontage to the subway. The bus terminal is presumably protected which limits some options there.
 

Jonny5

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I would just loop it like this:
View attachment 203986
Space is a concern but the station can be easily modified to fit the 30 meter beast.
T%he exit route you have chosen is the empty space because it is directly over the subway tracks. That's why it is unused. Are you sure they can actually build anything top of that? It been a while, but I also recall there being a grade change here too which would be a hindrance.
 

Streety McCarface

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T%he exit route you have chosen is the empty space because it is directly over the subway tracks. That's why it is unused. Are you sure they can actually build anything top of that? It been a while, but I also recall there being a grade change here too which would be a hindrance.
I don't have access to any of the engineering drawings or material properties, so no structural analysis on the entire station can be done. At this point, I'm just noting that there is space at the station for a streetcar line, but the station's bus terminal would require some modifications to enable for proper turning radii and fitting of Flexities. Space is constrained, yes, so the routing I proposed may not work, but those issues can be mitigated through another routing (which may include some expropriation). In terms of structural strengthening, if the line does indeed go over the subway, it might be necessary depending on the route one takes, but there's no way to consider that now when we don't have access to the data necessary to complete the structural analysis.
 

Streety McCarface

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Try again but with streetcar minimum curve radii and somewhere to put an accessible platform. That lane you are putting the Flexity down is maybe 5 meters wide even if you could get the Flexity to turn into it.

For the number of spaces involved, Green P lot would probably just get the predictable complaints from nearby traders rather than the War on the Car soldiers. I would have converted part of Danforth Garage (where the cops are going) to a Green P and put something in that space providing Danforth frontage to the subway. The bus terminal is presumably protected which limits some options there.
I measured the turn radius, it fits, but barely (I'm not sure of ArcGIS' accuracy here, but I presume it's within +-1m. Modifying the layout for it to fit there wouldn't be particularly challenging assuming it does reach the upper limit).
Screen Shot 2019-09-16 at 6.29.24 PM.png



There's more space between the station and Strathmore Avenue, so turning radius (I presume) won't be an issue there. Platform modifications and station modifications would be necessary for a route like this to work. Some expropriation may also be necessary (either one of the properties or some yardspace).
 

Bureaucromancer

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I think the Coxwell loop issue has really gotten over complicated by the streetcar expansion report wanting something underground. The dimensions of the existing station aren't ideal, but look doable in a pinch. That said, remember that there would only be one bus platform needed after restoring a Coxwell streetcar; if we sacrifice the ability for buses to pass each other in the loop and use the Green P lot it gets reasonably comfortable. There's a full 60 meters available between the Danforth frontage and Strathmore, which I suspect would allow a right off Strathmore and a north/south platform at about the mezzanine level before turning right onto Danforth. Even if there's enough vertical distance involved (which I don't have measurements of) to make that an unreasonably steep transition, an on street stop in the Danforth curb lane could fit a pair of cars albeit by putting the streetcars outside the fair paid zone.

The Danforth frontage is also fairly simple so long as the connection is made to the south end of the mezzanine. It also looks to me like there's enough space to move Danforth Division into, although I have yet to see site plans for the police division...

Coxwell.png
 

W. K. Lis

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I think the Coxwell loop issue has really gotten over complicated by the streetcar expansion report wanting something underground. The dimensions of the existing station aren't ideal, but look doable in a pinch. That said, remember that there would only be one bus platform needed after restoring a Coxwell streetcar; if we sacrifice the ability for buses to pass each other in the loop and use the Green P lot it gets reasonably comfortable. There's a full 60 meters available between the Danforth frontage and Strathmore, which I suspect would allow a right off Strathmore and a north/south platform at about the mezzanine level before turning right onto Danforth. Even if there's enough vertical distance involved (which I don't have measurements of) to make that an unreasonably steep transition, an on street stop in the Danforth curb lane could fit a pair of cars albeit by putting the streetcars outside the fair paid zone.

The Danforth frontage is also fairly simple so long as the connection is made to the south end of the mezzanine. It also looks to me like there's enough space to move Danforth Division into, although I have yet to see site plans for the police division...

View attachment 204563
With REAL transit priority traffic signals to control the entering and egressing of the streetcars, it would work. However, seeing how the Toronto Transportation Department currently handles transit priority signals along the streetcar right-of-ways and King Street, it will not happen.
 

W. K. Lis

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Try to remember. The suburban, anti-transit politicians seem to be doing their best worst in putting a stop to this...






You can read the entire PDF from this link. Best to download it, in case the powers-that-be try to erase this from history.

The "Official" website: https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/planning-development/planning-studies-initiatives/waterfront-transit-reset/
 
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rbt

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The value for taking Queens Quay past Dufferin seems quite low relative to cost.

Given the King transit zone is locked in (and Fort York/Bremner permanently killed as an option), I think I'd prefer a westward expansion of the King transit zone. Split 504A into 2 parts, sending half to Dundas West and half to Lake Shore. Terminate Queen at Roncessvalles.


Frankly, for the cost of the Waterfront West LRV plan you could fund ~50 years of a TTC fare (with free TTC/GO transfers) for Lake Shore, Mimico, and Park Lawn GO stations; then run a network of buses focusing on those stations. Lake Shore GO frequencies are pretty damn good all day long today, and will only get better.

Queen's Quay East has fewer alternatives.
 
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