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TTC: Streetcar Network

drum118

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Jonny5

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if the Broadview trackage to Unilever ever gets built it would seem like a possible 505 branch terminus to me
Was there not about 10 to 15 years ago some plan to turn (part of?) the Green P lot north of the Queen and Broadview intersection into a loop? IIRC there was a multi-party land swap deal in which the TTC gave up the land used for the loop at King & Parliament (removed around 2005 or so) in exchange for that space on the Green P lot on Broadview. They've never built the loop though.
 

Richard White

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Was there not about 10 to 15 years ago some plan to turn (part of?) the Green P lot north of the Queen and Broadview intersection into a loop? IIRC there was a multi-party land swap deal in which the TTC gave up the land used for the loop at King & Parliament (removed around 2005 or so) in exchange for that space on the Green P lot on Broadview. They've never built the loop though.
IIRC the turn radius was too tight so the TTC abandoned the idea.
 

TransitBart

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I'm not sure they have a suitable loop in the east. Presumably they could run "505A" from Brodview to the High Park loop, but the "505B" from Dundas West won't have a good place to turn unless it goes all the way to the Main Street loop.
I checked and the Gerrard / Broadview intersection does have the required north-to-east curve and the reciprocal west-to-south curve. When I read your post, I thought one of the two was missing.

Or, perhaps the "505B" could turn south on Broadview, and proceed to the Cherry Street loop? But, not sure how many riders will take that route.
This is why I asked the question. I could not think of a good place to loop in the east end. Too bad the city didn't build the loop in the Green P lot at Broadview and Queen. I know that the TTC wanted a loop to turn back 501s east back to west, but the same loop could serve to loop Broadview south to Broadview north which would loop a 505 which originated at Dundas West.
 

TransitBart

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Big problem at Broadview is gonna be on-street stacking. Even if they only run enough service on 505 to ensure that the platform is always vacated, it happens already on 504. Alternative is step back crewing, and sending cars express to Broadview if another is <2min behind.
I live in the neighbourhood so I walk, drive or bike past this a few times a week. The problem is less with the 505 as a bus. It was a regular occurrence with the smaller CLRVs (mixed 504 and 505) to be backed up to the Loblaws or the first crosswalk south of the Danforth in the afternoon rush hour. With the larger Flexities, and the limited platform space at Broadview, how can this not be an issue?
 

TransitBart

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IIRC the turn radius was too tight so the TTC abandoned the idea.
I believe that the TTC put the kibosh on the idea because there is only so much political capital and the winds were not blowing the direction of "more tracks in mixed ROW"

The TTC also wants a pair of tracks up Jones from Queen to Gerrard for flexibility looping cars, but this died on the same altar.

As I posted earlier; I wish the city had Councillors who would fearlessly make the decisions required to improve the place. Not everything is easy. You were elected to lead. Leadership involves unpopular decisions. Every parent knows that. I can't stand these people running for the corners, and making due. I also can't stand half-assed.

For what it's worth; and Kathleen Wynne is still a controversial figure, Mrs Wynne was not afraid to state what she thought needed to be done and make the case as she saw it for getting it done. Regardless of whether one votes blue, red or orange and esteems one of those parties, this quality is rare and we don't have remotely enough city councillors - large council or small council - who embody it.
 

Jonny5

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Here's an out there idea, though not as far fetched as some: there is a large block of vacant land at Parliament and Shuter. A sign on the property says it is a "future school site" for the TCDSB, though they appear to have left it vacant for quite some time (two years I think?). There is a lot of space there. The previous school, which was demolished, took up only 50% of the land, and that school was a low rise two floor building. Could a small part of this land be turned into a loop to facilitate short turns at Parliament for several different routes? This could especially work if the new school is built to say, three or four floors instead of two. There would still be a large open space for recess, sports, etc...

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DSC

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Here's an out there idea, though not as far fetched as some: there is a large block of vacant land at Parliament and Shuter. A sign on the property says it is a "future school site" for the TCDSB, though they appear to have left it vacant for quite some time (two years I think?). There is a lot of space there. The previous school, which was demolished, took up only 50% of the land, and that school was a low rise two floor building. Could a small part of this land be turned into a loop to facilitate short turns at Parliament for several different routes? This could especially work if the new school is built to say, three or four floors instead of two. There would still be a large open space for recess, sports, etc...
Of course, one can put a loop anywhere one wants but why would you put one here? OK it's empty but you need to look at alternatives that will actually provide useful service benefits or transfer points. The TTC can already loop from eastbound King or westbound from Queen via Parliament/Dundas/Broadview or use Distillery Loop and the loop they have (had?) planned for on Broadview just north of Queen plus the loop that will need to exist at south end of Broadview if/when THAT extension is built. Surely better to increase possible curves at appropriate places all over the network to allow for more flexibility. (At one time there was talk of creating a loop at the west side of the Don River bridge on King/Queen that would allow moves between King and Queen and this could be connected to Dundas by adding track on River between King & Queen. Frankly, the possibilities are many but the need is really not there. Building loops is not cost-free and it is probably far better to use scarce $$ to add curves or, for example, add alternatives like fixing track on Adelaide or even extending track on Richmond to Spadina. Adding a new loop on Parliament or almost anywhere is really a subject for the fantasy thread!
 

W. K. Lis

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TTC is not going to like those hyper-curvy roads.. expect them to be "straightened" before this thing is approved.

I would have used the eastern section of the "Relief Road" for the westbound streetcars to reach the Park Lawn GO Station. The eastbound streetcars could use the eastern section of the "Loop Road". I'm assuming that the track splitting at the Park Lawn GO Station are to serve the eastbound and westbound streetcars separately.
 

W. K. Lis

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I would have used the eastern section of the "Relief Road" for the westbound streetcars to reach the Park Lawn GO Station. The eastbound streetcars could use the eastern section of the "Loop Road". I'm assuming that the track splitting at the Park Lawn GO Station are to serve the eastbound and westbound streetcars separately.
Note how they have positioned the streetcar loop and the Park Lawn GO Station close to each other, to reduce the walking distance between the streetcars and the GO trains.

Now look at this image of the Brown's Line streetcar loop from Google Maps, at link.

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The city, the TTC, and Metrolinx need to do a rebuild, so that people do not have to safari across the asphalt desert between the GO Station entrance and the streetcar loop platform. They should easily move the tracks closer, and include a tail track or storage loop for disabled streetcars, along with proper bus bays for TTC , MiWay, etc. buses.

In exchange, the old loop could be use for (paid) parking.
 

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