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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Doug Ford filmed by CBC this morning handing out 20 dollar bills in a public housing complex....lol. Vote buy much?
 
arksi said:
No, I think Godwin's Law is the perfect thing to bring up right about now. These comparisons/insinuations are totally off the mark and far more offensive than anything the so-called trolls of this forum are coming up with. Seems hatred is clouding some people's better judgement around here.
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+1. I hate the Fords and their insanity as much as anyone, but hearing my wife's grandfather talk about NE France during the Occupation is not even close to a fair comparison to the Fords.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
It's less a monetary than a strategic issue - I felt sorry for Dale being put in this impossible condition of having to weight his reputation to the bigger picture.
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Agreed. It's an untenable position, and one I don't envy Dale for, whatever decision he ends up making: Either he takes Mayor Assclown to court and thus hands Ford another opportunity to yelp about how the media's out to get him, or he takes the so-called "high road," which will simply encourage Ford to keep slandering him every chance he gets. Which the rotten bastard's already doing, and will continue to do unless he's forced to cut it out. Bullies love picking on targets who don't fight back.

It's very easy for those of us acting as armchair quarterbacks here to urge Dale to undertake what will likely amount to an extremely ugly and lengthy and horribly unpleasant ordeal like dragging a sociopathic thug like Slob to the courts in search of justice, but honestly, I think it's the only way. It's all very well for those of us opposing the scumbag likes of Ford to stick our noses in the air and disdainfully sniff that there's no need to stoop to his level, but pushing back is the only language his kind understands. If Dale thinks a vindictive, thin-skinned brute like Ford is ever going to let this go without being made to, he's sadly mistaken.

This goes well beyond even the routine violations of common human decency we've come to expect from the Fords. The evil sack of shit smeared Dale as a pedophile, for Christ's sakes, and this after assaulting the man, stealing his phone, and lying about the encounter to the police. There are some accusations you just don't throw around like schoolyard taunts, and here Ford is, already repeating the vile slur to the American media. If Dale wants an end to this, he's going to have to take steps himself to see it done.
 
John_Dee:

Thought that said, I do think he should sue independently of the Star. At the end of the day, the strategic argument is relatively weak, vis-a-vis a) the importance of clearing the name of an individual who had been slandered in the grossest possible manner b) that the impact of suing on the overall strategy is probably low and c) revelations from any court case will probably be damaging to RoDoFo.

AoD
 
ottercopter said:
The point is not that the Fords are equivalent to Nazis or that Toronto 2013 is the same as Germany in the national socialist era.

The point is that many of the same cultural forces and basic human cognitive defects that brought the Nazis into power are at play here - the endless lies, the splitting of people into us vs them groups ("the real people of Toronto" vs "the Downtown Elites"), the bullying, the "nationalism" ("Ford Nation"), sexism, worship of corporate power, hatred of intellectuals and the arts, scapegoating, allegations of a vast conspiracy (Jewish then, "media" and "lefties" now), demonization of enemies, the willingness/eagerness of a large angry and disempowered chunk of the population to believe anything their leader tells them, abandonment of reason, logic and evidence in favour of appeals to emotion... there are many more parallels.

Upshot - fascism is built in to the human condition. It's never all that far away, and an ostensibly free society can find itself sinking into a totalitarian nightmare pretty damn quickly if enough of its citizens abdicate their responsibilities as citizens and wave away clear warning signs as meaningless or laughable or blown out of proportion.
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Bear repeating.

AoD
 
I simply doesn't see that big of a deal. The type of person who at this point still thinks The Star is out to get Ford will most definitely not give then credit if Dale doesn't sue.
 
ottercopter said:
Long-time reader, first-time poster - I added "Peepers" to my ignore list awhile back. Given the abysmal quality of his contributions to the discussion here, and in particular his current defence of misogynistic online harassment, I vote he be banned.
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+1

Peepers is toxic (and is in my ignore list for a long time). Ban him!
 
Part of the problem that will be created if DDale decides to go after Ford for liable, is that DDale's entire life and history will be open to investigation by the defence lawyers. They will dig up dirt, real or imagined, about DDale in order to refute his testimony. Smart investigator's will stop at nothing to find something disgusting, real or imagined, from DDales past, even a minor incident can be exploded in the courts as a major transgression. It is a very tricky business indeed!
 
The reverse with Daniel Dale will likely be true if he doesn't sue. Ford nation will just say 'If Ford is lying then why doesn't Dale sue him?" You're not going to win wither way with the obstinate ignorance of Ford nation. Bear in mind just how far these morons are willing to contort themselves to justify robbie and his actions.
 
It would probably make sense to crowdfund a campaign to remove Ford via PR campaign along the lines of Moveon.org. Essentially it would give voice to the "anyone but Ford" crowd, and could engage in direct personal attacks on the Fords that serious mayoral candidates might shy away from at the risk of seeming too nasty.
 
The Stalin/Nazi stuff is an unproductive tangent/way off the mark. However, imagine how our lives would be in North America if Tea Party types gained political power in the States and were able to establish policy without needing to compromise, a 21st Century North American facist regime. Impossible, you might have thought. Yet Toronto and Ontario are supposed to be progressive places with highly educated populations and look who we elected mayor. And then, despite him being a disaster of every front, despite scandal worse than we might have predicted, despite losing the support of his peers and despite his shallow obvious lying and manipulation of the public, he continues to hold the office, continues to dominate all conversations, and threatens (although his chances are becoming more remote) to be re-elected. Despite it all, civic and business leaders haven't yet stood up to demand that Rob Ford go. We have a personality cult here, one that is energized by exploiting divisions in the population. Rob thinks he can become Prime Minister and Doug Premier. Democracy isn't looking that great around here. If these guys can succeed here it doesn't seem that impossible that in our lifetimes someone more malicious and maybe a little smoother could gain power in the more fractious and divided America. First thing, they'll be looking through everyone's Google history, so watch where you browse.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
John_Dee:

Thought that said, I do think he should sue independently of the Star. At the end of the day, the strategic argument is relatively weak, vis-a-vis a) the importance of clearing the name of an individual who had been slandered in the grossest possible manner b) that the impact of suing on the overall strategy is probably low and c) revelations from any court case will probably be damaging to RoDoFo.

AoD
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If Dale were file a claim against Rob, he would probably have to stop covering City Hall, at least for the remainder of Ford's term. No matter how ethical he may be, his coverage would be compromised by his role in the larger story. I'm pretty sure that's a big issue for Daniel. He strikes me as someone who thrives on reporting, and is probably weighing the options of where he can do the most good. I wouldn't blame him at all for choosing journalism over a defamation suit. Frankly, that might be better for all of us.
 
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