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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

Wynne can be connected to Dalton as she served as a cabinet Minister under him for years and many of the people in Dalton Years were apart of the Wynne Govt and did not do anything substantive to clean up the many ethical issues around the Dalton Era.
 
Tiffer24, perhaps I didn’t word my post very clearly. I have no intention of moving from Ontario, I have every intention of giving my children the option to easily do so if we continue down this ruinous path. I’m happy to go down with the ship myself, after all we owe everything we have to others.

I was struck however how you suggested essentially that regular people don’t feel they have the luxury to make principled decisions. The possibility that you are correct is my greatest political fear. I just naively don’t want to believe it.
 
Tiffer24, perhaps I didn’t word my post very clearly. I have no intention of moving from Ontario, I have every intention of giving my children the option to easily do so if we continue down this ruinous path. I’m happy to go down with the ship myself, after all we owe everything we have to others.

I was struck however how you suggested essentially that regular people don’t feel they have the luxury to make principled decisions. The possibility that you are correct is my greatest political fear. I just naively don’t want to believe it.

Over the years I've been here @UT, I've had the pleasure of reading many articulate posts by yourself.

Your contributions on any number of threads have been thoughtful and well considered.

This thread is proving an unfortunate exception.

First, you've chosen to wander in the direction of hyperbole.

I have no quibble w/expressing concern over debt-levels, current or proposed, nor an expressed desire to see governments of any or all stripes demonstrate greater consistency of principle and policy not seemingly upended for the utility of reelection.

But I to use words or turns-of-phrase like 'ruinous' and 'going down with the ship' is just too much. It divorces any legitimate concerns over policy direction or electioneering from your post, by drawing the reader's gaze to Sun-worthy Headlines.

Second, I'm also deeply concerned by the notion that your posts express that there is a greater lack of ethics in helping those in need than in not helping them.

If you prefer more conservative-minded forms of help, I think that's entirely defensible, but one would expect you to say so in your posts.

For instance, the complete exemption of low-income earners from paying income tax or sales tax might be a more conservative solution to issues of economic exclusion.

But doing so on even a tax-neutral basis would likely mean large tax hikes for those in the middle and higher income streams.

Focused-spending on self-reliance would be another conservative minded way of directing spending, but that might mean assuring that everyone reached adulthood in excellent health, with an excellent education, including post-secondary, with money being no barrier to same.

That too would not be free, though it might allow someone the luxury of feeling that robust social programs for working-age adults were less a priority (arguably) .

But I have seen no such advocacy in your posts.

Nor have I seen advocacy for a tax-hike dedicated to paying down the debt, and then splitting the proceeds (the savings in interest) on targeted tax cuts for low and lower-middle income earners, along with similar social investments for the neediest.

If those who advocate for a more conservative inclination in politics will not advocate for a version of that that is caring, that shows enlightened self-interest, then who will?

Why would any caring person vote for a party or support a mindset that appears entirely selfish and short-term in its outlook?

I strongly suspect (and hope) you don't fit that latter description, but you have to be aware your recent posts betray only narrow self-interest and not a deep concern for the broader social welfare.
 
Today's promises from the current government

News Release

The Governments of Canada and Ontario announce funding to help people in Ontario save energy and money in their homes and businesses
April 4, 2018

Canada and Ontario are working together to take action on climate change and find clean solutions to help homeowners and families save money, reduce energy waste, create jobs and support healthy communities.
Today, the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, Catherine McKenna, and the Premier of Ontario, Kathleen Wynne, announced a federal investment of up to $100 million to help the people of Ontario make energy efficient retrofits to their homes - including apartments, townhouses and low-income housing - and businesses.

This funding will support the province's GreenON Rebates program, which helps cover the cost of eco-friendly retrofits across the province. This investment is supported by the Government of Canada's Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund.

GreenON Rebates will assist property owners make energy efficient changes like installing better insulation, high-efficiency ventilation systems and heat pumps, and other devices to save energy and reduce costs.

As part of its Climate Change Action Plan (CCAP), Ontario in investing up to $1.7 billion over the coming years into GreenON to support a wide range of programs, including rebates and programs to help families, business and farmers make environmentally friendly changes. The CCAP is a five-year action plan that is making life more affordable for people across the province and making Ontario a leader in the global fight against climate change. Revenues from Ontario's carbon market, which puts a cap on the carbon pollution businesses can emit, are funding this action plan.

The Government of Canada's Low-Carbon Economy Leadership Fund provides $1.4 billion to provinces and territories that have adopted the Pan-Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change (PCF), to deliver on commitments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Today's announcement is part of the almost $420 million Ontario is receiving through the Leadership Fund.


QUICK FACTS
  • The Government of Canada’s Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund will make homes and buildings more efficient, comfortable and affordable to run, help companies across Canada innovate and access technologies and help the forest and agriculture sectors to enhance stored carbon in forests and soils.
  • In January, Ontario became part of the second-largest carbon market in the world, which forms the backbone of Ontario's strategy to cut greenhouse gas pollution to 15 per cent below 1990 levels by 2020, 37 per cent by 2030 and 80 per cent by 2050.
  • Ontario’s carbon market has generation approximately $2.4 billion in revenue to improve schools, hospitals, transit and other projects like new bike lanes that are building a greener, more energy efficient province.
  • Ontario has committed up to $1.7 billion over three years to support a wide range of programs under the Green Ontario Fund (GreenON).
  • Through GreenON, property owners are currently eligible for rebates up to $7,200 in savings on new insulation; $5,000 in savings on replacement windows; $5,800 in savings on some air source heat pumps; and $20,000 in savings on installation of some certified ground source heat pumps.
 
The Liberals have taken some heat for announcing things piece-by-piece, but Ford doesn't seem to think it's such a bad idea:

http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...o-emerge-piece-by-piece-in-slow-reveal-source

Why are the Conservatives so scared to tell people what they plan on doing? This doesn't appeal to me personally, but I can see the benefit - it allows them to maximize the impact of Ford's populist nonsense in which he talks a lot but says almost nothing. It'll keep people distracted from the fact that it's a plan that involves a lot of cutting.
 
The Liberals have taken some heat for announcing things piece-by-piece, but Ford doesn't seem to think it's such a bad idea:

http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...o-emerge-piece-by-piece-in-slow-reveal-source

Why are the Conservatives so scared to tell people what they plan on doing? This doesn't appeal to me personally, but I can see the benefit - it allows them to maximize the impact of Ford's populist nonsense in which he talks a lot but says almost nothing. It'll keep people distracted from the fact that it's a plan that involves a lot of cutting.

In an era of 24/7 news and social media, it's all about catching as much attention at as much time as possible. Mind you, that has never been a problem with the Fords.
 
The Liberals have taken some heat for announcing things piece-by-piece, but Ford doesn't seem to think it's such a bad idea:

The Liberals have taken heat because of the blatant electioneering (ie. proroguing).
 
Doug Ford has already declined an early Ontario Leadership debate scheduled for April 11th. Horwath, Wynne and Green Party leader Mark Scheiner have confirmed their attendance.
Did I miss it? When was the writ dropped?
 
Why is he skipping debates? I mean, I personally have psychological issues when I hear him speak, but he should go up against his opponents and answer questions related to his ideas. Though, to be fair, his answers are complete bullshit "trust me", "I've done it, you haven't", "I know, you don't", etc.

The guy's a fraud. Patrick Brown was way better and, as I've said before, under him I would have at least listened to the PCs and maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe (the betting odds would have been massive) would have allowed them to sway me in some way or another. Now under Ford, I don't even care what the platform is, they may as well be UKIP or AfD or Communists for how much love they'll be getting from me.
 
Doug is already skipping debates.

I called this in another thread. There's no value at all to Ford doing debates. If I were in his shoes, I'd skip too. Skip one and see how the poll numbers do. Attend the second one if it matters.
 
Why is he skipping debates? I mean, I personally have psychological issues when I hear him speak, but he should go up against his opponents and answer questions related to his ideas. Though, to be fair, his answers are complete bullshit "trust me", "I've done it, you haven't", "I know, you don't", etc.

The guy's a fraud. Patrick Brown was way better and, as I've said before, under him I would have at least listened to the PCs and maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe (the betting odds would have been massive) would have allowed them to sway me in some way or another. Now under Ford, I don't even care what the platform is, they may as well be UKIP or AfD or Communists for how much love they'll be getting from me.

This is a debate organized by the black community too. They gave him a lot of support back in 2014.
 

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