2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[christiesplits]

So 3 Liberal MPPs (2 current Cabinet ministers) just announced they will not be running on June 7.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ction-tracy-maccharles-michael-chan-1.4606003

I wouldn't be surprised to see even more depart. If you're cabinet minister, why sit in opposition benches for four years when you can have a plum gig in the judiciary or Bay Street?

At this point, I expect that any high profile cabinet minister hanging in there - Del Duca, Hunter, Sousa - has leadership ambitions post-Wynne.

 

[steveintoronto]

To me this is a non-story.

The story has only just begun. For his org's part, Zuckerberg has admitted culpability. What form that culpability manifests in is the subject of at least three Federal Inquiries in a number of nations and more in states and provinces. (BC is having one)

If you share your private and social activities and interests online while directly linking that info to your actual name and providing the names of your friends, family and acquaintances, then of course it’s available to the public and corporations to do with as they wish.

Hey, if I flash my bling at Jane and Finch, and get mugged, does that make it legal?

Note that no one has been criminally charged in this matter, there is no crime. There is no violation of privacy if the target has already put the wanted personal info into the public realm.

"Note that no one has been criminally charged in this matter, there is no crime."
This becomes farcical. A normal statute of limitations of seven years applies in the US for many offences. Some have no limitation. Why would that be do you think?

The case has to be proven before charges are laid. And they will be.

Addendum: They already have in a number of cases. Here's one:

BUSINESS NEWS
FEBRUARY 12, 2018 / 8:41 AM / 2 MONTHS AGO
German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

Hans-Edzard Busemann, Nadine Schimroszik

BERLIN (Reuters) - A German consumer rights group said on Monday that a court had found Facebook’s use of personal data to be illegal because the U.S. social media platform did not adequately secure the informed consent of its users.
[...]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ok-use-of-personal-data-illegal-idUSKBN1FW1FI

And the real shid hasn't even hit the fan yet. And here's more:

Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again
Natasha Lomas@riptari / Feb 19, 2018

Another blow for Facebook in Europe: Judges in Belgium have once again ruled the company broke privacy laws by deploying technology such as cookies and social plug-ins to track internet users across the web.

Facebook uses data it collects in this way to sell targeted advertising.

The social media giant failed to make it sufficiently clear how people’s digital activity was being used, the court ruled.

Facebook faces fines of up to €100 million (~$124 million), at a rate of €250,000 per day, if it fails to comply with the court ruling to stop tracking Belgians’ web browsing habits. It must also destroy any illegally obtained data, the court said.

Facebook expressed disappointment at the judgement and said it will appeal. [...]

https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/19/facebooks-tracking-of-non-users-ruled-illegal-again/

Oh, and about the "real name" proviso I mention in the following post?

German court says Facebook's real name policy is illegal - The Verge

Facebook refuses to promise GDPR-style privacy protection for US users
https://www.theguardian.com/.../facebook-gdpr-stronger-privacy-protections-eu-data-...
1 day ago - Facebook is rolling out stronger privacy protections to users ahead of the introduction ofEurope’s General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), but Mark Zuckerberg will not promise all future changes will apply to the company’s American users. Although the initial tranche of ...
New EU privacy rules to benefit Facebook users globally - EUobserver
https://euobserver.com/science/141520
9 hours ago - New EU privacy rules to benefit Facebook users globally. Facebook estimated that the data of up to 87 million people worldwide 'may have been improperly shared' with the UK consulting firm Cambridge Analytica. A million of those were UK users (Photo: Anthony Quintano). By Peter Teffer. Brussels ...

 

[steveintoronto]

How is what they did any different then the way this very website we post on targets ads towards us?

I always get ads on UT for things I recently searched for.

You're obviously not familiar with the terms of use. Of course Google profiles you, but there are limits in how they do that, and the primary one in all jurisdictions being discussed is that *your real name is not attached* to that info unless in some cases, you use it for your on-line identity.

You fail to understand the massive scale of cross-referencing of layers of internet info, like phone numbers, addresses, full names and family history, place of employment, diseases or health status. And political persuasion and tendencies. And how you use your porky...not necessarily unconnected. Their profiling software makes it for them.

I was only ever on Facebook once to look up the addy of a prominent journalist years back. Found out after I already had her addy from previous correspondence. I tried to quit Facebook. Took me weeks, got sick of all the mindless morons wanting me to 'friend' them. I immediately realized the mistake I'd made. I eventually found the way to quit Facebook, never did put up a 'page' or post any details beyond the necessary ones to join, which is small in the big-picture, but still a concern.

Facebook et al have shit to pay. And they will, but millions of minions will still flock to them as that's all they know. Doesn't make the misuse of data legal, however.

 

[steveintoronto]

Even if I'm exposing myself to possible civil action for slander, nothing in the above is illegal.

Just because you read it, doesn't make it true. There above should trigger only one of two responses; first, disregard; or, fact checking through looking at investigative journalism, or just ask the candidate/campaign.

There is no crime. And ethics? What's that got to do with campaigning and elections? Wynne knew that Hudak was going to reduce the civil service by attrition alone, but that didn't stop her supporters from spreading misinformation that a massive firing was coming.

Why are Ford's supporters so bereft of even the most basic understandings of the Law?

Cyber Libel and Canadian Courts
Canadian Internet Defamation Rulings
Cases published to February 22, 2018

This is a list of Canadian court decisions involving the publication of allegedly defamation expression via the Internet.

This list is not exhaustive: (a) court rulings are not always reduced to writing; (b) the law reports and electronic databases do not contain all written court rulings; and (c) jury verdicts are not published in the law reports or in electronic legal databases.

The Canadian Internet defamation decisions are currently indexed under the following topic headings:

A. Jurisdiction
B. Notice of Intended Action
C. Limitations Defences
D. Defamation Damage Awards
E. Substantive Defences
F. Pre-Trial Injunctions
G. Anonymous Defendants
H. Miscellaneous Cyber Libel Issues

As new Canadian Court rulings are pronounced and listed on this page, new topic headings may be added.

Under each topic heading, the Canadian decisions are listed in reverse chronological order (i.e. the most recent decision is listed first).

Wherever possible, a hypertext link is provided to the full text of a Canadian decision. A link will in most cases lead to a free, publicly-accessible website.

In a few instances, the link is not to another website but to an Adobe Acrobat version of the judgment stored on this website.

A number of decisions have no link. Most are from the Ontario Superior Court of Justice which does not display its decisions on its website.

Most of the Canadian decisions which pre-date April 1, 2004 are discussed in Roger D. McConchie and David A. Potts, Canadian Libel and Slander Actions (Toronto: Irwin Law, 2004). References to relevant pages in the book are given below.

See also:
I. Commonwealth Decisions of Interest
[...]

http://www.libelandprivacy.com/cyberlibel_home.html

How short the memories:
Wynne sues Brown for $100K in libel action

 

[Admiral Beez]

?

Hey, if I flash my bling at Jane and Finch, and get mugged, does that make it legal?...

That's no analogous here. An apt example is you stand at Jane and Finch and tell strangers you're taking the 11am bus tomorrow, and then someone overhearing you who's selling bus maps meets you at the bus stop to sell you a map. If you don't want to be approached by bus map sellers, keep your business to yourself.

You fail to understand the massive scale of cross-referencing of layers of internet info, like phone numbers, addresses, full names and family history, place of employment, diseases or health status. And political persuasion and tendencies. And how you use your porky...not necessarily unconnected. Their profiling software makes it for them.

And where does that internet info come from? You, and us, voluntarily putting it on line. Your FB profile does not have to show your real name (just email your mates to tell them your pseudonym), your LinkedIn privacy settings and info can be limited, and you don't have to use google or gmail.

The case has to be proven before charges are laid. And they will be..

No, you have it backwards. The charges are laid first, then the case is proven. Surely you know this?

Addendum: They already have in a number of cases. Here's one:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-facebook/german-court-rules-facebook-use-of-personal-data-illegal-idUSKBN1FW1FI

And the real shid hasn't even hit the fan yet. .

Forget the Euros, where is FB's crime in the eyes of US courts?

And forget even the US courts, why don't we bring this back on topic of how this may impact Ontario's election? Steve, let's not either of us be part of the threadjacking problem here at UT.

Why are Ford's supporters so bereft of even the most basic understandings of the Law?

You don't know me, what I know, nor who I support.

 

[steveintoronto]

It does affect Ontario's election. As discussed in detail prior, and more evidence comes out every other day.

Canada's privacy watchdog has launched an investigation into Facebook after a series of media reports alleged that private online information belonging to millions of Americans was obtained by a company working on U.S. President Donald Trump's election campaign.

"We have received a complaint against Facebook in relation to allegations involving Cambridge Analytica and have therefore opened a formal investigation," Canada's Privacy Commissioner Daniel Therrien said in a statement.

"The first step will be to confirm with the company whether the personal information of Facebook users in Canada was affected."

The investigation will look at whether Facebook has complied with the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA), Canada's federal private sector privacy law.

• Cambridge Analytica suspends CEO pending probe in Facebook data scandal

• THE NATIONAL TODAY
  Facebook's Zuckerberg keeps low profile as Cambridge Analytica scandal grows

• U.K. committee wants to hear Facebook's Zuckerberg on fake news, data supplied to Trump campaign
• [...]

• http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-privacy-watchdog-facebook-investigation-1.4585210

That was two weeks ago.

Here's yesterday's news:
More than 600,000 Canadians caught in Facebook data scandal

AggregateIQ is now being investigated in BC and the UK, involved in Cdn elections. Are they the only ones who used illegally obtained data? Inevitably not.

That will emerge soon.

And forget even the US courts, why don't we bring this back on topic of how this may impact Ontario's election? Steve, let's not either of us be part of the threadjacking problem here at UT.

As I dislike a threadjacking as much as most, let's bring this back on topic.

What can we take from the above and apply to the Ontario election? Are we worried that evil Cons will hire a firm to reap the personal and network details we all voluntarily surrender to the public domain on FB to target ads and fake/biased news at us?

Privacy watchdog suggests he may join ongoing AggregateIQ investigations

COLIN FREEZE Globe and Mail
PUBLISHED APRIL 4, 2018 UPDATED 14 HOURS AGO

Canada’s privacy czar has publicly suggested he may join in on the ongoing probes against AggregateIQ, the B.C. company tied to the Facebook data controversy and money flows around the 2016 Brexit vote.

The Victoria-based political consultancy was already facing scrutiny for its role in working with British firms toward shaping the Brexit vote in favour of the campaign to leave the European Union. Privacy officials based in British Columbia and in Britain have been investigating for months, but recent revelations have led the Privacy Commissioner of Canada to suggest that he may now want to be part of the investigative efforts.

“We have been in communication with our provincial colleagues in British Columbia to monitor the situation,” Daniel Therrien told reporters in Toronto Wednesday. “Given all of the allegations, including Facebook, Cambridge Analytica, we’re looking at how to act and whether we will do more than monitor the situation.”


Mr. Therrien said he and his counterparts are “now discussing whether to make that collaboration more concrete.”

Separately, a federal opposition politician in Canada is pressing for AggregateIQ’s founders to appear before a legislative committee. “It will be good to hear AggregateIQ give testimony at the Ethics/Privacy Committee in Parliament,” NDP MP Charlie Angus tweeted on Wednesday. [...]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...dog-suggests-he-may-join-ongoing-aggregateiq/

 

[Admiral Beez]

But meantime, if you wish to 'stay on topic', perhaps you can provide Doug Ford's five points?

Those aren't announced yet are they? Why would you think I could provide his five points? Can you provide them?

 

[steveintoronto]

Those aren't announced yet are they? Why would you think I could provide his five points? Can you provide them?

That's exactly the point...

 

[Admiral Beez]

That's exactly the point...

What? So, the absence of Ford's five points drives you to dwell on the manipulation public data on FB to influence the 2016 US presidential election? Surely we can still stay on topic without Ford's points? Perhaps the lack of the five points is the topic we should discuss?

 

[steveintoronto]

Surely we can still stay on topic without Ford's points?

Perhaps the lack of the five points is the topic we should discuss?

Be my guest.

Topic surmise is:
2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion
I'd like to discuss Ford's manipulation of the OntCon leadership race, and how that happened. I'm sure there's quite a few in the OntConCaucus who'd like to know too.

I suspect they were all using manipulated data to some extent, but it ended up biting them. There are questions surrounding the methodologies of polling/marketing firms involved.

See how that works? Ford has no points to discuss, so we have to do them for him. He probably is better off denying everything. He wouldn't know anyway...

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'd like to discuss Ford's manipulation of the OntCon leadership race, and how that happened. I'm sure there's quite a few in the OntConCaucus who'd like to know too.?

You're OT again. Here's the PC leadership thread, https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/2018-ontario-pc-leadership-race.28266/

Is there nothing about the election that you want to discuss or posit for discussion?

From my perspective, as a likely NDP voter in Toronto Centre, I want to know Horvath's platform.

 

[steveintoronto]

You're OT again.

Discussion in 'Politics & Diplomacy' started by MetroMan, Sep 2, 2016.

After last night's defeat in a safe Liberal riding to the Provincial Conservatives and watching a new PC leader who is willing to admit mistakes and doesn't seem interested in getting into controversial policies, I'm afraid that the Liberals are toast and we most likely will see the end to the Big Move before some of its flagship projects get under way.

Wynne says that she's staying on to contest the 2018 election but I'd much rather see her give up the mantle to a new leader who comes in with a clean slate and gives the Liberals a chance at remaining in power. Wynne is very unpopular and I think that it's irresponsible and selfish for her to remain.

Can Wynne win in 2018? Should she step down now? If so, who should succeed her?

Mod note: original thread title was Can Wynne win in 2018? Title changed to reflect the broader 2018 provincial election discussion

Ford's suitability to win is a very germain part of that. I'm convinced that there are events yet to be revealed that will 'complicate' his position. The stuff of fantasy?

Take a look at what's transpired so far. Wynne has had her dirty laundry on display for some time, and there's no shortage of it. Ford has hit his high point, and has nowhere to go but down, and recent polls indicate that.

What's totally relevant is that he never received support from one Caucus member, and yet won without having popular support. I certainly intend to keep posting on that point. The knives are ready to stab him, fatally, first big stumble he makes, which is why they've tried to muzzle him...and the denouement will be from his own Party.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The knives are ready to stab him, fatally, first big stumble he makes,

I agree.

Had they only gone with Elliot or even Mulroney the PC insiders and caucus would have a much better chance. And the PCs know this, and will stab Ford the moment their fears are realized. This really should be Wynne's Waterloo, not her miracle of Agincourt.

If Ford does flame out, I'd say that's the last we see of him having any serious contention of anything political, beyond maybe a run again at a city seat in Etobicoke.

 

[steveintoronto]

I agree.

Had they only gone with Elliot or even Mulroney the PC insiders and caucus would have a much better chance. And the PCs know this, and will stab Ford the moment their fears are realized. This really should be Wynne's Waterloo, not her miracle of Agincourt.

If Ford does flame out, I'd say that's the last we see of him having any serious contention of anything political, beyond maybe a run again at a city seat in Etobicoke.

Glad you agree. It's going to go down in history as one of the darker moments of Ontario Blue gone Black. Just because a vocal minority of hysterics feel it's the best choice for their Party (many of them signed up purely for the purpose, hardly people with the long-term interest of the Party at heart), it does not follow that the majority of Ontarians agree, polls be damned! People are angry at Wynne, of course they'll tell a pollster their darkest impulses.

But for many voters, and Ontario has shown this many times in the past, once they get to the election box, cooler logic prevails. 'Better the devil you know than the one you don't'.

It worked last time, and Hudak, for all his many shortcomings, was a hell of a lot more informed and qualified candidate than Ford.

The Cons are now terrified that allowing Ford to open his mouth will be his downfall....and theirs. Fortunately, many in "the Elite" of the Party wish for him to fail, and they'll help it along. Best way to do that without the messiness of carrying sharp knives and removing blood stains? Spill the beans behind 'Casear's' ascension. It's there for all candidates. But especially so for Ford, and he's loathed by those in the know.

 

[animatronic]

I agree.

Had they only gone with Elliot or even Mulroney the PC insiders and caucus would have a much better chance. And the PCs know this, and will stab Ford the moment their fears are realized. This really should be Wynne's Waterloo, not her miracle of Agincourt.

If Ford does flame out, I'd say that's the last we see of him having any serious contention of anything political, beyond maybe a run again at a city seat in Etobicoke.

But let's be realistic. There's no internal investigation of the PC leadership election, nor will there be.

The social media manipulation is a big story, and there will be an Ontario angle. But's it's messy and complicated and won't be a factor for this cycle.

We know Ford doesn't have a lot of support in the party. We also know they are scrambling. But we're two months from the election and there's no time to change again. Any dissent will be buried until after the general. No PC candidate is going to waste their shot at power, despite how much they may dislike Ford.

What we see now is what we're going to get, in all its triple-spaced glory.