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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

You can be flippant all you want about the Liberals record. But people are upset about it. And people do want them to be held accountable for it.
We'll see if this is accurate or wishful thinking come the election.

You could have said the exact same thing before the last election, if anything it was worse after years of McGuinty, but still the people for the most part did not want them to be held accountable, as you say.
 
Paying teachers union to campaign against PC's.
$40M Gas Plant cancellation (actually over $1B).
E-mail deletion.
Sole sourced Samsung windmill deal.
Changing Auditor General scope to allow for partisan advertising.
False claims of balanced budget (confirmed by Financial Accountability Officer (FAO)).
Cutting healthcare at time when federal government was giving 6% increases in health transfers.
 
Paying teachers union to campaign against PC's.
You have no evidence.

$40M Gas Plant cancellation (actually over $1B).
Same thing all the major parties campaigned on doing.

E-mail deletion.
McGuinty Government. Unless we're saying all successive governments are simply extensions of their past.
In that case Doug Ford is Mike Harris.


Sole sourced Samsung windmill deal.
That's not corrupt nor a scandal.

Changing Auditor General scope to allow for partisan advertising.
You mean the kind that Mike Harris ran during his tenure. Dougie is on the hook for that as well then as an extension of past party policies.

False claims of balanced budget (confirmed by Financial Accountability Officer (FAO)).
Accounting minutia. Hardly corruption.

Cutting healthcare at time when federal government was giving 6% increases in health transfers.
Cutting Dr.'s fees and freezing hospital budgets are what the conservatives have been clamoring for.
 
Paying teachers union to campaign against PC's.
$40M Gas Plant cancellation (actually over $1B).
E-mail deletion.
Sole sourced Samsung windmill deal.
Changing Auditor General scope to allow for partisan advertising.
False claims of balanced budget (confirmed by Financial Accountability Officer (FAO)).
Cutting healthcare at time when federal government was giving 6% increases in health transfers.

Your claims have been addressed by others.

But I'll reinforce, the majority don't meet the criteria of corruption at all.

cor·rup·tion
kəˈrəpSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: corruption; plural noun: corruptions
1
.
dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.

***
In respect of the gas plant cancellation itself, there is no such allegation.

Nor the Samsung Deal.

Email deletion is not itself a corrupt act, except in so far as it covers the tracks of same. (proof please)

As someone who disagrees the Liberal choice not to raise taxes to pay for spending, I find the AG and FAO's criticisms unfounded and suspect. These exact same rules were used by the Harris Tories
to define the budget/deficit at that time.

I don't see you distrusting Tory numbers even though they were calculated the same way.

Your last claim is outright untrue. Not only has the health budget never been reduced even once, no subset has either (hospitals, long term care, physician services).

What did happen was increases below the rate of transfer increase.

What also happened was individual fees for certain services were reduced, as well they should be. We continue to overpay cataracts surgeons by leaps and bounds. A fee that was appropriate when the surgery took a full hour, is not at all appropriate when it takes 15 minutes, as is now the case.

In any event, not a corrupt act.
 
Some of these hyper anti-Liberal types seem to think that voting for the "corrupt" Liberals in Ontario is as immoral as voting for Roy Moore in Alabama.
 
It absolutely does. You haven't been throwing them in jail because they haven't done anything.

Would you extend the logic for the #metoo movement? Just because a person is not convicted does not mean you, cant judge, a person's character.

The liberals are corrupt not because they exchange kickbacks with cash envelopes or the legal definition of corruption.

It is more about the corruption of their duty to the people of Ontario where they seem much fixated on keeping power regardless the cost or the ethics behind it.

This is a natural feeling of any party that has been in office for 15 years and why its time to kick them out of office and any party that has been in power for so long.

So when people call the liberals corrupt, they are 100% right to do so and I will continue to do so.
 
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Eh, I'm sure there can be evidence of corruption found in there somewhere, but I already have a full time job and hobbies. Their arrogance and vote-buying is self-evident enough. Clouseau could find it.
 
Some of these hyper anti-Liberal types seem to think that voting for the "corrupt" Liberals in Ontario is as immoral as voting for Roy Moore in Alabama.

Arguably, setting up future citizens for failure by outspending the bank on necessities leading to money being wasted on interest and an eventual series of massive cutbacks to said necessities is indeed immoral.

It's definitely foolish.

Is it immoral to negatively affect future citizens for contemporaneous gain without any of them having any say in the matter and them not deriving any benefit but only detriment from those actions?

I reckon it is.
 
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