2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[sixrings]

I guess I'm more ashamed that anyone can think this man is ontarios savior. But I learned along time ago that other people's actions shouldn't affect my own beliefs

 

[Northern Light]

How about the fact that no other country tried this and no other country did as well as Canada.
Or, is the only evidence you will accept is if I find an alternate universe where all other factors were constant except for Ignatieff being the PM.

Perhaps, instead of imaging your partisan and ideological blindness is comparable to factual evidence, you might consider research.

A simplistic analysis of why Canada fared better in the '08 recession can be found here.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...adas-recession-wasnt-as-brutal/article612437/

You will note that the HST reduction is not listed as a factor.

Or you might choose to look here.

https://www.richmondfed.org/~/media.../research/econ_focus/2013/q4/pdf/feature2.pdf

*spoiler alert, no HST mention.......again.

Or here:

http://www.bankpedia.org/index.php/...conomy-avoided-the-global-crisis-encyclopedia

*sigh, still no HST mention

You could keep going..........you don't find a credible analysis that mentions the HST.

Btw, the first cut 7 to 6% occurred in 2006, well before there was any recession.

Only the second cut was coincidental to the time period in question.

***

At the end of the day, it was about banking regulations, far and away; followed by economic stimulus, relatively low government debt levels, a less frothy housing market (at the time); and the gov't role in the bail out of the auto industry.

The HST impact is so minute, if any, as to be non-quantifiable.

Those are the facts.

Now please don't attempt to shame me for doing my homework because the truth hurts your feelings.

I don't appreciate it. It doesn't look good on you either.

 

[pman]

What!! Ford is not dressed as Jesus?

He just doesn't have that Trudeau flair.

Ford, Jesus...sounds about right. Purple Jesus that is.

 

[steveintoronto]

Cutting GST allowed Canada to weather great recession better than any other country. It was one of many brilliant moves by Harper that kept the underground economy from flourishing as it did in the 90s.

There is absolutely no evidence supporting a linkage between the two.

Perhaps, instead of imaging your partisan and ideological blindness is comparable to factual evidence, you might consider research.

A simplistic analysis of why Canada fared better in the '08 recession can be found here.

Without having read NL's link, let me rehash the sentiments of other nations on it, namely the US and UK, as reported by the FT, WSJ and others.

A lot comes down to Paul Martin's vision for the future of Canada's banks, refusing to allow them to merge, and mandating a much greater reserve ratio against lending than in other G7 nations. The Brits especially looked to Canada as their banks were in "a right old mess"...or worse. Many are still struggling to get back on their feet, even after being bailed out, something (at least not by the technical definition) that didn't happen in Canada. One aspect some kneejerkers point to is the CMHC, and underwriting mortgages, the instigator in the US' case of their banking system almost collapsing from bad mortgages.

Not necessary to go into fine detail at this point, suffice to say the US later copied some of their corrective measures based on Canada's into their own legislation (some of which is now attempting to be undone by Ford Senior...the real senior: Trump)

It's no coincidence that the UK Conservatives asked BoC Guv Carney to become the new BoE Guv: (Rumour has it, as reported by The Economist and others, that the infinitely wise Harper was about to dump him anyway)
George Osborne gets his man: Mark Carney named as new Bank of England Governor
Canadian Mark Carney is first foreign Governor of the Bank of England in 318 years – but can he ride to the economy’s rescue?

• Ben Chu
• @Benchu_
• Tuesday 27 November 2012 00:00 GMT

• [...]
  He (Osborne) said: “Mr Carney is unique amongst the potential candidates in combining long experience of central banking, huge international credibility in economics, deep expertise in financial regulation and a first-hand experience of private sector financial institutions”.
  
  The incoming Governor, as well as overseeing the Monetary Policy Committee, which sets interest rates and takes decisions on money printing, will also chair the Financial Policy Committee, which will be tasked with ensuring financial stability from next year.
  
  Mr Carney told a news conference in Ottawa after the announcement that he was relishing the challenge and that he was “honoured” to accept the appointment. “I am going to where the challenge is greatest” he said.
  
  The news was greeted with shock in the Square Mile, where Mr Tucker was widely seen as the red-hot favourite. “Surprise, huge surprise” said Peter Dixon an economist at Commerzbank “That was the one guy I didn’t have in the running, and it’s a slap in the face for the likes of Tucker.”
  
  Analysts said that the appointment reflected the Chancellor’s admiration of the performance of the Canadian economy through the global downturn of 2008-09 and also the fact that no Canadian banks needed to be bailed out in the crisis. In Britain the authorities were forced to extend an estimated £1trillion to prevent the sector from melting down. [...]

• https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-as-new-bank-of-england-governor-8352494.html

Note:"£1 trillion". That's a thousand million, both sides of the Atlantic now.

CMHC, since been put under the aegis of the OSFI, is still a model to much of the world, and oddly, Canada's housing market, after a number of tweaks, is still one of the strongest in the developed world.

And Carney? Besides being rumoured to be returning to Canada to further educate his daughters, oh yes, and vie to lead the Federal Liberals, is also head of the G20 Financial Stability Board.
http://www.fsb.org/profile/mark-carney/

Go Ford Nation! Keep going...lol...until you smack into the wall of your ignorance. You could'a been contenders. But that would have required an intellectual ability...

Do Fords have their own scrapyard?

 

[SunriseChampion]

Cutting GST allowed Canada to weather great recession better than any other country. It was one of many brilliant moves by Harper that kept the underground economy from flourishing as it did in the 90s.

I'm sorry but cutting the GST was the Harper government's single worst economic action. Worse even than the investment trust fake-out.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Every politician wants to buy your vote with his/her promises. Is the Liberal government worse than anyone else? They have a different platform to do it because they are in power. Maybe their theory was go big or go home, it's no time to be subtle, and right now they are being anything BUT subtle.

The level at which the current government is promising direct subsidies to all sorts is a bit more of a blatant vote buy than the usual policy promises.
I'm still waiting for the bread subsidy to show up.

 

[SunriseChampion]

You think millions of parents are going to pack up and leave Ontario because... the government wants to provide childcare?

He clearly said that he'd invest for his childrens' future so that they could leave in future if necessary due to the local public debt burden which will inevitably lead to a giant mower being taken to public spending in the province making shit quite miserable for more than a few.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Where is Jasmine? Its gotten all quiet on the western (Brampton) front. Actually I haven't heard much from One City lately? Maybe he is in fact Doug and is busy kissing babies and giving out magnets somewhere (Easter weekend church services would be a great place to show he is a man of the people).

She probably got tired of being talked down to. I'm not saying it wasn't warranted, I'm just offering explanations for her absence.

 

[SunriseChampion]

How about the fact that no other country tried this and no other country did as well as Canada.
Or, is the only evidence you will accept is if I find an alternate universe where all other factors were constant except for Ignatieff being the PM.

Whoah, that's a bit of causation fishing, bud.

 

[SunriseChampion]

What!! Ford is not dressed as Jesus?

He just doesn't have that Trudeau flair.

He's equally arrogant, don't worry.

 

[Videodrome]

If Doug can't make a single public appearance or policy announcement without using his dead brother for sympathy, it might turn some people off.

 

[sixrings]

She probably got tired of being talked down to. I'm not saying it wasn't warranted, I'm just offering explanations for her absence.

She was dishing out as much as she was taking. She appears like the politician who loses and just goes home without shaking the winners hand. The race isn't even over yet.

 

[steveintoronto]

She was dishing out as much as she was taking.

Ya know, I have a Conservative background, my father was an elected Con in the UK, but Cdn Cons (and this is a trend internationally, unfortunately) have resorted to kneejerk mime repetition. Very few if any can actually buttress their case with facts and cogent argument. That would take being aware and neutral, and mostly, being well-read.

I'd like nothing more than to see Wynne et al punished for such shitty governance and mismanagement. But electing total idiots instead of partial ones to replace them is like purposely driving the bus off the edge of the cliff to spite the bad paving and poor road signage.

The Libs have presented a terrible set of leaders provincially and federally. The Cons are even worse. Meantime the ones that tout the latter have no rational case to make, because there isn't one.

They had two comparatively very good choices. And they elected the hit-and-run driver as their bus chauffeur. And then expect us to sing-along as he mumbles from his favourite band, The Neanderthals.

Urko: Ahh yes. I seem to remember hearing something vaguely about that; *Brain washing*. Isn't that where you take the brain out of the skull and wash it with cool water?
Wanda: No, no. You don't take the brain out of the skull.
Urko: You don't - Well how can you wash the brain if you don't take it out of the skull?

Planet of the Apes
The Interrogation
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0675110/

 

[SunriseChampion]

I'd like nothing more than to see Wynne et al punished for such shitty governance and mismanagement. But electing total idiots instead of partial ones to replace them is like purposely driving the bus off the edge of the cliff to spite the bad paving and poor road signage.

Hahahaaaaa......quite.

 

[christiesplits]

I'm very surprised to see that the NDP has risen in 416 according to the latest Forum poll. Horwath has never appealed to Torontonians, particularly within the old city limits. High profile MPPs Rosario Marchese and Michael Prue lost their seats last provincial election, and in the federal election, the NDP lost in huge upsets in ridings like Toronto-Danforth and Davenport.

I think a key barrier to the NDP's growth in Toronto is the migration of the professional, tech and creative-bourgeois-lefty types to the inner city. The modern Liberal Party of Trudeau and Wynne speak the language of the these constituencies. These are the types of voters who support issues like public transit or gender equity, but whose eyes glaze over when the NDP talk about P3s or labour rights. The granola munchers of Riverdale and The Annex are expiring, and accountants and lawyers are taking their place.

This June I can see the NDP keeping Toronto-Danforth, and possibly one or two of Davenport, Parkdale High Park or Beaches East York.