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TTC: Streetcar Network

W. K. Lis

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The City of Toronto has been growing twice as fast as the government expected, as growth elsewhere in the GTA rapidly slows. The bulk of this growth is concentrated in the Downtown core, putting even more strain on the streetcar network.

As Steve Munro said, there's no way that even an additional 60 new streetcars would meet demand. Furthermore, at some point in the next decade, we're going to have to start building the East Bayfront LRT. At that point, the number of peak streetcar customers using Union Station will have reached 10,000 pax in peak hour, which is nearly twice as high as the Crosstown's eastbound peak ridership, to put that in perspective. The City is asleep at the wheel here, and we can expect zero leadership whatsoever from Queen's Park. Both governments really need to wake up and realize what the hell is going on with Toronto's population growth.

In the meantime, if we're going to have a Downtown core that can meet population growth, we should consider the following:
1. Order an additional 130 streetcars, as Steve Munro said.
2. Build East Bayfront LRT and rebuild Union Station loop
3. Build the Relief Line West concurrently with the Relief Line North
4. Expand the network of streetcar priority corridors. College is the most obvious candidate, but Queen might work too.
Unfortunately, we have politicians and bureaucrats who still do not see public transit as being important, and something that does not need an increase in funding. They would be the ones who do not use public transit on a regular basis.
 

salsa

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The City of Toronto has been growing twice as fast as the government expected, as growth elsewhere in the GTA rapidly slows.
And in a few years they will probably also discover that the additional subway capacity promised by the relief line will not live up to current projections, for this reason alone.
 

micheal_can

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Toronto should always have new lines under construction. The fact that they sit idle when there is a severe lack of transit is the real problem.

Right now, there is no subway extensions being built and no street car lines being extended or added. There is only 1 LRT line being built.
That's not good enough.
 

robmausser

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Toronto should always have new lines under construction. The fact that they sit idle when there is a severe lack of transit is the real problem.

Right now, there is no subway extensions being built and no street car lines being extended or added. There is only 1 LRT line being built.
That's not good enough.
TECHNICALLY the Crosstown partly qualifies as a subway.

And its currently the largest ongoing rapid transit project in north america.

And also the Finch LRT is currently under construction. Thats 2 LRT lines and 10km of subway
 

micheal_can

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TECHNICALLY the Crosstown partly qualifies as a subway.

And its currently the largest ongoing rapid transit project in north america.

And also the Finch LRT is currently under construction. Thats 2 LRT lines and 10km of subway
It is attitudes like thing that are the problem.... A tunnel does not equal a subway line.
 

TheTigerMaster

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It is attitudes like thing that are the problem.... A tunnel does not equal a subway line.
Lets not get into semantic debates. The only thing that really matters is that the Crosstown is a fully protected mass transit line. The line could be using horse drawn carriages for all I care
 

torontocolin

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We also started the Crosstown project before the last subway extension finished. It's important that something else is ready to break ground when Eglinton and Finch are done, but Toronto's problem in recent years hasn't actually been building rapid transit lines, it's funding adequate service and maintenance on the existing lines and routes.
 

p5connex

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Mass transit costs money and if you haven't noticed we are one of the poorest countries in the world. We can't afford to build transit. We can however, afford hundreds of environmental reports, thousands of transit studies, endless political debates and discussions, not to mention the many hundred town hall meetings. All in the name of delaying transit, as it costs money to build. Take the example of the electrification of the GO train - this is still no closer to reality, than it was when it was first floated 4 decades ago. Don't quote me on anything..( XD)
 
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Richard White

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Toronto's problem in recent years hasn't actually been building rapid transit lines, it's funding adequate service and maintenance on the existing lines and routes.
This is the 1990s all over again.

David Gunn once said that keeping the system in a state of good repair should always trump expansion. I believe this was even included in the coroners inquest after the Russell Hill incident.

I would rather them totally kill all future projects than delay and defer maintenance to fun them.
 

Bureaucromancer

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And it was David Gunn's insistence on not even saying what we should build if we had the money that kept us from starting anything meaningful until two terms into a Liberal government.

I remember at the tail end of that era being told, literally, "we don't talk about expansion since there's no money for it".
 

micheal_can

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I got a suggestion... raise property taxes....
I live in Sudbury, and compared to us, you pay a lower rate. If you raised taxes, then you could afford it.

But, I know, I know, cutting services is more palatable than raising taxes.
 

Richard White

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I got a suggestion... raise property taxes....
I live in Sudbury, and compared to us, you pay a lower rate. If you raised taxes, then you could afford it.

But, I know, I know, cutting services is more palatable than raising taxes.

I know it and you know it... it's just our local politicians claim we pay one of the highest tax rates around which is not true.

Honestly, it would be easier to levy a transit improvement tax of 50% on all purchasable goods.
 

micheal_can

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I know it and you know it... it's just our local politicians claim we pay one of the highest tax rates around which is not true.

Honestly, it would be easier to levy a transit improvement tax of 50% on all purchasable goods.
It'd be easier to put a levy on everything, but, no, please, don't raise taxes.....
 

doady

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Lets not get into semantic debates. The only thing that really matters is that the Crosstown is a fully protected mass transit line. The line could be using horse drawn carriages for all I care
The difference between light rail and heavy rail and horse-drawn carriages is not purely semantic, especially in the context of a discussion the capacity of the TTC system to handle the ridership growth.
 

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