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TTC: Streetcar Network

torontocolin

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We also started the Crosstown project before the last subway extension finished. It's important that something else is ready to break ground when Eglinton and Finch are done, but Toronto's problem in recent years hasn't actually been building rapid transit lines, it's funding adequate service and maintenance on the existing lines and routes.
 

p5connex

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Mass transit costs money and if you haven't noticed we are one of the poorest countries in the world. We can't afford to build transit. We can however, afford hundreds of environmental reports, thousands of transit studies, endless political debates and discussions, not to mention the many hundred town hall meetings. All in the name of delaying transit, as it costs money to build. Take the example of the electrification of the GO train - this is still no closer to reality, than it was when it was first floated 4 decades ago. Don't quote me on anything..( XD)
 
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Richard White

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Toronto's problem in recent years hasn't actually been building rapid transit lines, it's funding adequate service and maintenance on the existing lines and routes.
This is the 1990s all over again.

David Gunn once said that keeping the system in a state of good repair should always trump expansion. I believe this was even included in the coroners inquest after the Russell Hill incident.

I would rather them totally kill all future projects than delay and defer maintenance to fun them.
 

Bureaucromancer

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And it was David Gunn's insistence on not even saying what we should build if we had the money that kept us from starting anything meaningful until two terms into a Liberal government.

I remember at the tail end of that era being told, literally, "we don't talk about expansion since there's no money for it".
 

micheal_can

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I got a suggestion... raise property taxes....
I live in Sudbury, and compared to us, you pay a lower rate. If you raised taxes, then you could afford it.

But, I know, I know, cutting services is more palatable than raising taxes.
 

Richard White

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I got a suggestion... raise property taxes....
I live in Sudbury, and compared to us, you pay a lower rate. If you raised taxes, then you could afford it.

But, I know, I know, cutting services is more palatable than raising taxes.

I know it and you know it... it's just our local politicians claim we pay one of the highest tax rates around which is not true.

Honestly, it would be easier to levy a transit improvement tax of 50% on all purchasable goods.
 

micheal_can

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I know it and you know it... it's just our local politicians claim we pay one of the highest tax rates around which is not true.

Honestly, it would be easier to levy a transit improvement tax of 50% on all purchasable goods.
It'd be easier to put a levy on everything, but, no, please, don't raise taxes.....
 

doady

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Lets not get into semantic debates. The only thing that really matters is that the Crosstown is a fully protected mass transit line. The line could be using horse drawn carriages for all I care
The difference between light rail and heavy rail and horse-drawn carriages is not purely semantic, especially in the context of a discussion the capacity of the TTC system to handle the ridership growth.
 

micheal_can

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The difference between light rail and heavy rail and horse-drawn carriages is not purely semantic, especially in the context of a discussion the capacity of the TTC system to handle the ridership growth.
There was a Yonge Streetcar. I wonder why it got upgraded to a Subway.....
 

TossYourJacket

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The big change between subway and streetcar on Yonge was grade separation, and stop spacing. Saying a mixed-traffic streetcar (which is effectively an upgraded bus) is the same as light rail running as part of a rapid transit system in a tunnel is disingenuous. Even in the case of the crosstown surface section, or finch, the stop spacing is greater than it is for the streetcars. If we'd replaced a tunnelled streetcar with a heavy rail subway, then you'd have a point.
 

rbt

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Personally I've got half a mind to propose making the CEO of Metrolinx an elected position with some sort of taxation authority.
I don't disagree but division of revenue can run into issues. If Metrolinx gets someone with big plans combined with a spend-thrift premier (hiring freeze, capital freeze, etc.) would MTO demand payment for use of land allocated to them (such as the Highway 407 corridor) in order to float their own budget?
 

W. K. Lis

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There was a Yonge Streetcar. I wonder why it got upgraded to a Subway.....
Before the 1940's, the "subway" plans were for an "underground streetcar" up Bay Street shifting over to under Yonge Street.

The first "subway" in North America was in Boston, in 1897, using streetcars. Today, that "subway" still exists and was and is being extended, but now they call them light rail vehicles.

See link.


 

micheal_can

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The big change between subway and streetcar on Yonge was grade separation, and stop spacing. Saying a mixed-traffic streetcar (which is effectively an upgraded bus) is the same as light rail running as part of a rapid transit system in a tunnel is disingenuous. Even in the case of the crosstown surface section, or finch, the stop spacing is greater than it is for the streetcars. If we'd replaced a tunnelled streetcar with a heavy rail subway, then you'd have a point.
It is all about the amount of people the line moves. Buses move less than streetcars. Streetcars move less than LRT. LRT moves less than Subways.

Just like having your neighbourhood served by a subway is not worth it, having a neighbourhood not served by a subway is a bad thing. Toronto needs more mass transit. As soon as 1 project completes one part, then, a new project does that part. For example, once one subway is tunneled, a new subway is tunneled, all while that first one has their stations built.
 

Bureaucromancer

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I don't disagree but division of revenue can run into issues. If Metrolinx gets someone with big plans combined with a spend-thrift premier (hiring freeze, capital freeze, etc.) would MTO demand payment for use of land allocated to them (such as the Highway 407 corridor) in order to float their own budget?
Probably worse than that. Bearing in mind the actual legislative structure, there would be no way to create an elected Metrolinx that a Premier couldn't just be rid of the moment it became inconvenient.
 

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