TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[Northern Light]

Broadview station loop reconstruction (and, I think, expansion) is out to tender. Much sooner than I was expecting!

T11sd22687-d65-2-broadview Station Loop Track Replacement - T11SD22687 | MERX

www.merx.com

From the above:

 

[W. K. Lis]

 

[mind_the_gap]

New LCD designs.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608989077726199809

View attachment 447995

Sorry to bring this back up, but I was having issues accessing UT at the time this was posted.

Overall, I really like the clean design. I’m just surprised they didn’t opt for a half-half or two-thirds/one-third layout. There’s just so much wasted space for a screen that size/those dimensions, but as mentioned before, at least they finally put them to their proper use. They definitely should display the time in the ”Stop Requested” area, at least when it’s not activated.

For comparison,

Chicago layout:

Source

New York layout:

Source

It would be useful to display information about current service disruptions, and planned outages.

 

[Northern Light]

From @mind_the_gap 's post above:

First, to his point:

I could do w/o the ads in the NYC version, and like the idea that the second portion of the screen could list any delays, ideally starting w/those affecting any major cross routes, or the rapid transit running from the station with which the route is connected.

*****

Second item, I noted this in the very same Tweet.

All-door loading for buses! We are perfectly capable of doing this in Toronto now, and it would expedited travel times materially if we did.

 

[DSC]

From @mind_the_gap 's post above:

First, to his point:

View attachment 451267

I could do w/o the ads in the NYC version, and like the idea that the second portion of the screen could list any delays, ideally starting w/those affecting any major cross routes, or the rapid transit running from the station with which the route is connected.

*****

Second item, I noted this in the very same Tweet.

All-door loading for buses! We are perfectly capable of doing this in Toronto now, and it would expedited travel times materially if we did.

View attachment 451266

I have no doubt all door boarding is possible on buses but think the problem is that using it will undoubtedly increase the number of people who simply do not pay. Having to enter at front door allows the driver to enforce the rules, even if not all do. The TTC can put ticket inspectors on streetcars as there are more passengers to check up on and the aisles are wider; not sure how one could do that on a crowded bus.

 

[rbt]

... not sure how one could do that on a crowded bus.

The most effective way of handling POP on buses is probably fare gates at transfer points between bus and subway, and mostly ignore enforcement on the bus.

A handful of buses, where the head-count regularly varies significantly from revenue, could be targeted by fare enforcement but in rush it would likely involve taking everyone off the bus to do it, checking fares as they exit. Perhaps a fare inspection as you leave, then board another waiting bus immediately? Those being ticketed remain on the original bus which departs once all paperwork is completed?

 

[Northern Light]

I have no doubt all door boarding is possible on buses but think the problem is that using it will undoubtedly increase the number of people who simply do not pay. Having to enter at front door allows the driver to enforce the rules, even if not all do. The TTC can put ticket inspectors on streetcars as there are more passengers to check up on and the aisles are wider; not sure how one could do that on a crowded bus.

I don't see this as a material issue.

Most people pay their fares. GO operates on the honour system (with enforcement) already.

The operational advantages are significant, particularly if we nix cash payment on buses and handing out transfers, which is overdue as well.

That said, fare enforcement can be set up to operate anywhere on TTC property, on board any vehicle, though clearly, the latter is an issue during peak crowding.

One can, as @rbt notes use gates at stations, but we won't, not only is that cost prohibitive, it would seriously imperil the capacity of our stations and completely wipe out any operational savings from all-door loading.

However, one can set up temporary barricades, and check passengers as they get off a bus (at a station), during off-peak periods; as well as randomly check people on trains.

That said, I'm not a big believer in diligent enforcement, I'm not convinced its a net financial winner.

I think simplified, streamlined fare structures with a comparatively affordable fare; and reasonable efforts to reduce poverty address the issue more effectively.

 

[turbanplanner]

I don't see this as a material issue.

Most people pay their fares. GO operates on the honour system (with enforcement) already.

The operational advantages are significant, particularly if we nix cash payment on buses and handing out transfers, which is overdue as well.

That said, fare enforcement can be set up to operate anywhere on TTC property, on board any vehicle, though clearly, the latter is an issue during peak crowding.

One can, as @rbt notes use gates at stations, but we won't, not only is that cost prohibitive, it would seriously imperil the capacity of our stations and completely wipe out any operational savings from all-door loading.

However, one can set up temporary barricades, and check passengers as they get off a bus (at a station), during off-peak periods; as well as randomly check people on trains.

That said, I'm not a big believer in diligent enforcement, I'm not convinced its a net financial winner.

I think simplified, streamlined fare structures with a comparatively affordable fare; and reasonable efforts to reduce poverty address the issue more effectively.

Go has regular commuters taking a limited number of routes. The TTC has a way wider usecase of riders.
Go riders tend to be better off so they're not going to screw around over $3

also more fun on the subway today!

https://imgur.com/7g4Ycm1

 

[littlewill1166]

There's already all-door boarding on TTC buses. Just stand at St.Clair and Keele, Dufferin Station, or Jane and Finch during rush hour. Drivers can already use their discretion to open all doors at busy stops to facilitate efficient boarding. Mandating and advertising all door boarding removes that discretion and creates a source for passenger complaints.

 

[Northern Light]

There's already all-door boarding on TTC buses. Just stand at St.Clair and Keele, Dufferin Station, or Jane and Finch during rush hour. Drivers can already use their discretion to open all doors at busy stops to facilitate efficient boarding. Mandating and advertising all door boarding removes that discretion and creates a source for passenger complaints.

Discretionary choices, even wise ones, are more often the source of complaints than universal norms. I find this argument peculiar.

 

[littlewill1166]

Discretionary choices, even wise ones, are more often the source of complaints than universal norms. I find this argument peculiar.

Does it really make sense to open all doors at a stop during a blizzard or a heat wave just to let one person on for the sake of all door boarding?

Most TTC drivers know how to do their jobs well and don't need to be micromanaged.

 

[T3G]

Does it really make sense to open all doors at a stop during a blizzard or a heat wave just to let one person on for the sake of all door boarding?

Most TTC drivers know how to do their jobs well and don't need to be micromanaged.

I find your assertion that there is already all door boarding to be a very strange one, too. I have never seen such a thing occur, even at stops where there are lots of people waiting.

This has nothing to do with whether TTC drivers know how to do their jobs well or not. The fact of the matter is, all door boarding is not presently a recognized policy on TTC buses, so any drivers that allow this are acting alone. This creates conflicting expectations. Some are traditionalist old timers who balk at the idea and will never open the door. Having a universal policy that applies relieves them of the requirement to make their own rules.

As for your first sentence, when it comes down to it, how is any of that different to what we experience already? Context allows us to have buses that bypass stops if there is no one waiting there, and stop at those stops if someone is there. In the same way, if there's only one person, only open the door that they are nearest to. No one said you have to throw open all the doors if there's only one person waiting.

 

[Northern Light]

Does it really make sense to open all doors at a stop during a blizzard or a heat wave just to let one person on for the sake of all door boarding?

Most TTC drivers know how to do their jobs well and don't need to be micromanaged.

I don't recall saying that you needed mandatory opening of every door at every stop without exception.

Rather, that it be a widespread norm to expedite boarding where it clearly saves time.

In my experience, most drivers at most stops do not do that. I believe that causes needless delay and longer trip times; and that the evidence supports that.

 

[littlewill1166]

I don't recall saying that you needed mandatory opening of every door at every stop without exception.

Rather, that it be a widespread norm to expedite boarding where it clearly saves time.

In my experience, most drivers at most stops do not do that. I believe that causes needless delay and longer trip times; and that the evidence supports that.

I find your assertion that there is already all door boarding to be a very strange one, too. I have never seen such a thing occur, even at stops where there are lots of people waiting.

This has nothing to do with whether TTC drivers know how to do their jobs well or not. The fact of the matter is, all door boarding is not presently a recognized policy on TTC buses, so any drivers that allow this are acting alone. This creates conflicting expectations. Some are traditionalist old timers who balk at the idea and will never open the door. Having a universal policy that applies relieves them of the requirement to make their own rules.

As for your first sentence, when it comes down to it, how is any of that different to what we experience already? Context allows us to have buses that bypass stops if there is no one waiting there, and stop at those stops if someone is there. In the same way, if there's only one person, only open the door that they are nearest to. No one said you have to throw open all the doors if there's only one person waiting.

I realized that 29 Dufferin, 35 Jane, and 41 Keele all run out of Mt. Dennis division. So... Mt. Dennis has the best drivers I guess...

They're usually in a better mood than the ones from Wilson division.

 

[nfitz]

I find your assertion that there is already all door boarding to be a very strange one, too. I have never seen such a thing occur, even at stops where there are lots of people waiting.

Presumably you refer to buses, as it standard for the other modes.

I don't normally see it, but I certainly see it when there's crowding. Though I've only seen it in or near downtown.