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TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

I always thought Sherway would also be an ideal terminus for the 501. Take the streetcar up Browns Line to the mall and integrate it with the new subway station. What wonders that would do for riders in New Toronto/Alderwood.

With all due respect to Alderwood, I think that a 501 branch along Queensway would be a much better idea. It would involve much more new trackage, but there is a lot of development potential along Queensway with many residential projects already underway.
 
If Bloor-Danforth is going to be extended that far, it is better to extend it along Dundas to Hurontario and connect to the Hurontario LRT.

The B-D line doesn't even serve the Financial District, a diversion to the airport is pointless. An Eglinton subway would do the same job.

There is a reason why transit run mostly E-W rather than N-S in the area: the demand is not there. You people seriously think The West Mall is a more viable subway corridor than Dundas Street?

Extend the subway along corridosr to nodes with potential for mixed-use and high-density. Neither West Mall or the airport qualify.

Not sure who this comment is directed to, but what I was suggesting was a BRT, not a subway running N-S. I realize that the demand wouldn't be that high, but it would be well within the range of BRT, and it would do wonders for network connectivity. And because it would be bus lanes, a bunch of regular routes can use the lanes to get to the terminals faster.

With all due respect to Alderwood, I think that a 501 branch along Queensway would be a much better idea. It would involve much more new trackage, but there is a lot of development potential along Queensway with many residential projects already underway.

Good idea. It could also use the hydro corridor, creating basically an LRT. Much easier than trying to redesign the entire roadway.
 
There really isn't anything on Dundas Street East in Mississauga to warrant having a subway on it, and certainly not for short range rapid transit, and if it did it would take a long time to get downtown on it. A GO connection would better suffice again with better fare integration.
 
BRT would carry less people right?

Every transit mode has its own use and where it should go.

Since MTO has rule out Rapid Transit on 427 with its own ROW, we are left with BRT. Depending on what the top limit of ridership is to the airport, BRT will have its max limit of 72 riders per 60' artic bus with 52-58 seated and the rest standing. Using double deck buses and that the way this BRT should go, it will carry 85 with everyone having a seat. No provision for luggage has been allow for. Once you allow room for luggage, you reduce your carrying capacity for riders.

You could put an elevated ROW up the centre of 427 and it has to be high as the highest overpass to get over it. This is only good to the 401 and has to return to grade north of it, due to the flight path.

When you look at cost recovery, LRT out weights BRT. It currently cost $110/hr to put a bus on the road with a min of 4 hours of service. An LRT should run about $250 with subway costing $450/hr.

We know we can add cars to both LRT and subway cars and not increase the hour rate if ridership increase 30% as well keeping cost ratio high. You can maintain the same headway until the train max out the platform space. Only then you would look at adding a train or 2 and that will reduce the headway and cost ratio.

When it comes to BRT you have to add more buses that will reduce the headway, as well reducing the cost ratio to match that 30% increase of ridership.

As I have stated in the past, the current Dundas in Mississauga or the rail corridor does not justify a subway to Sq One, as there is no density along it nor will MT #5 have enough ridership to feed it to help to justify the line. The whole section along Dundas can be redevelop to support a subway in the future. The first section for development is between 427 and Dixie, as this is a blight zone as long as I have live in Mississauga. If plan correctly, you can put in 200,000+ residents/employment in this area and over 500,000+ along Dundas to Hurontario. It will never happen in your life time.

The Yonge subway was built when there was some density along it to the point, its only been the last 10-15 years real development has taken place at Eglinton station area, 40 years after it open. North York Centre station was an after thought to the point it sees over 25,000 riders daily today with the station being built after the line had open. It was not rough in like it should have and cost twice the cost to do so over a live line.

Single seat rides have the highest operation cost, cost more for a rider to use it than a high turn over of seats trip. Just look at GO for those cost.

As for reducing the ARL fare, it would be pouring oil on a fire to do so, when it was shown from day one this was a mistake in the making. Unless numbers have change much in the past 4 years, do the math what this ARL cost to build, operate and divided by 17,000 riders per weekday and 6,000 for all other types of days to see what the cost will be to ride this white elephant. I have no breakdown what % of that 17,000 are family members, but once a family traveler looks at all options getting to the city core, they will not be using the ARL if there more than 3 in their party. I will lay odds that business people going to the hotel first will still be taking a cab in place of the ARL.

I cannot tell you when I heard of it, but somewhere in TTC backroom there is a plan to run a streetcar line along the Queensway to Sherway. Even before I heard it, I saw a line on that road going out to Hurontario, but could not come up with numbers to justify it going past Sherway. With the slow redevelopment of the Queensway, a line should be in place by no later than 2025 to meet the growing demand for service on that road.

I disagree about a subway being justify going to Sherway to pull drivers off the QEW when it would be better to have a new station and parking tower at Park Lawn for GO. You will not pull the drivers off when they look at the total travel time by subway or fighting the traffic.
 
I cannot tell you when I heard of it, but somewhere in TTC backroom there is a plan to run a streetcar line along the Queensway to Sherway. Even before I heard it, I saw a line on that road going out to Hurontario, but could not come up with numbers to justify it going past Sherway. With the slow redevelopment of the Queensway, a line should be in place by no later than 2025 to meet the growing demand for service on that road.

Interesting. Are we talking full ROW like on St. Clair, or mixed traffic? I think that the Queensway has a huge amount of development potential, and having it hit Sherway would be great.
 
There really isn't anything on Dundas Street East in Mississauga to warrant having a subway on it, and certainly not for short range rapid transit, and if it did it would take a long time to get downtown on it. A GO connection would better suffice again with better fare integration.

And a GO connection exists at Kipling, which make Dixie GO an illogical terminal. At least for the forseeable future
 
Cost to take the line to Cloverdale is about $600m, that will see the biggest bang for the buck.

How would the line get up to Dundas?

I understand there is not enough room on the CPR ROW, or immediately adjacent to it to go at grade. This would have been much less expensive, and resulted in a station at the South side of Honeydale Mall. I could have seen it occuring to compensate for the fact that so much of the transit in the works now (YUS, ECLRT, Sheppard?) is in Scarborough and North York.

If you want to go under the Condo at the West end of Subway Crescent (Just East of Canadian Tire), you would need an awfully (prohibitively?) steep grade from Kipling station. Even curving North of this Condo would not be easy - there appears to be an underground garage to the North of the Condo the curve would be tight. Could they tear out the tail tracks, operate Kipling without them during construction, and use this extra distance to help with the changing alignment?
 
How would the line get up to Dundas?

I understand there is not enough room on the CPR ROW, or immediately adjacent to it to go at grade. This would have been much less expensive, and resulted in a station at the South side of Honeydale Mall. I could have seen it occuring to compensate for the fact that so much of the transit in the works now (YUS, ECLRT, Sheppard?) is in Scarborough and North York.

If you want to go under the Condo at the West end of Subway Crescent (Just East of Canadian Tire), you would need an awfully (prohibitively?) steep grade from Kipling station. Even curving North of this Condo would not be easy - there appears to be an underground garage to the North of the Condo the curve would be tight. Could they tear out the tail tracks, operate Kipling without them during construction, and use this extra distance to help with the changing alignment?

If the Rail ROW is out, my vote would be using the hydro ROW that exists there, even if it's in the form of an open cut. It goes from Kipling to just northwest of Sherway, with only a few parking lots under it.
 
To further what CC posted, I did up a quick map of how a Queensway LRT could theoretically be implemented as part of a 'South of Bloor' transit plan. A bit fantasy in nature, but a good exercise none the less.

SouthOfBloor.jpg
 

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There really isn't anything on Dundas Street East in Mississauga to warrant having a subway on it, and certainly not for short range rapid transit, and if it did it would take a long time to get downtown on it. A GO connection would better suffice again with better fare integration.

Bloor subway itself isn't just to "get downtown" either. After all, there is more to downtown Toronto than just Bloor Street.

Dundas East in Mississauga is one of the busiest local transit corridors in the GTA (the ridership is similar to Yonge Street north of Steeles), and the redevelopment potential is immense. It is certainly enough to warrant LRT (which of coruse already being studied). But if you build such a short LRT line, why not just build it as subway? The Hurontario LRT alone is projected to have over 100,000 weekday boardings, even without connection to the subway. A subway extension along Dundas would mean a huge improvement in connectivity.
 

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