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TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

denfromoakvillemilton said:
Would this not be cheap and fast to do? Just 2 or 3 stops from Kipling to the west mall. Why hasn't this happened yet?
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Cost to take the line to Cloverdale is about $600m, that will see the biggest bang for the buck.

Taking the line to the West Mall will would be another $300m+, with no return for the money, as there is nothing there and no room to build anything there. It would be cheaper to run the West Mall buses to Cloverdale Station than build a station for it.

Not high on TTC list to build this extension or the one to Sherway. There is no funding in the 10 year capital budget to do this extension and what would you push below the budget line to build this extension since there is billion of dollars projects already there now??

Taking the line west along Dundas to Dixie would see 2 stations between them, if Mississauga change its zoning policy to allow mix use with high density along Dundas and the surrounding area. They would have to be rough in at this time for future need since there is no demand for one now or the next 20 years.

You can use a TBM to get to West Mall with open cut for the stations. Outside of peak hour and that pushing it, you could do a full open cut in place of a TBM.

If development is plan correctly between Kipling and Cloverdale, you may need a station between then and would have to be rough in during construction.

By having TTC take the various bus routes out of Kipling and move them to Cloverdale, would save TTC deadheading time and excess mileage on equipment. Faster trip for riders.

Only need room for the 2 Kipling buses routes as well the Lampton only.

No sure how much traffic would be lost from the Kipling station with a new parking structure at Cloverdale, but might be enough to build a building or 2 down the road.

You maybe able to build a building on top of existing terminal not being used anymore.

Going to take 20-40 years to build this area up, based on the current trend.
 
drum118 said:
Cost to take the line to Cloverdale is about $600m, that will see the biggest bang for the buck.

Taking the line to the West Mall will would be another $300m+, with no return for the money, as there is nothing there and no room to build anything there. It would be cheaper to run the West Mall buses to Cloverdale Station than build a station for it.

Not high on TTC list to build this extension or the one to Sherway. There is no funding in the 10 year capital budget to do this extension and what would you push below the budget line to build this extension since there is billion of dollars projects already there now??

Taking the line west along Dundas to Dixie would see 2 stations between them, if Mississauga change its zoning policy to allow mix use with high density along Dundas and the surrounding area. They would have to be rough in at this time for future need since there is no demand for one now or the next 20 years.

You can use a TBM to get to West Mall with open cut for the stations. Outside of peak hour and that pushing it, you could do a full open cut in place of a TBM.

If development is plan correctly between Kipling and Cloverdale, you may need a station between then and would have to be rough in during construction.

By having TTC take the various bus routes out of Kipling and move them to Cloverdale, would save TTC deadheading time and excess mileage on equipment. Faster trip for riders.

Only need room for the 2 Kipling buses routes as well the Lampton only.

No sure how much traffic would be lost from the Kipling station with a new parking structure at Cloverdale, but might be enough to build a building or 2 down the road.

You maybe able to build a building on top of existing terminal not being used anymore.

Going to take 20-40 years to build this area up, based on the current trend.
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Thanks for the info drum. So this area is really not dense enough then.
 
Cloverdale/East Mall is the logical extension as it is the optimal location for the main Mississauga Transit bus terminal. Around 20 different MT and TTC bus routes would be shortened by this extension, saving both agencies a lot of money.
 
You mean along the 427? Why not just convert some lanes on the 427 to dedicated lanes and run a BRT? Once the ARL is in place, I doubt the demand for travel to the airport will be very high from Dundas and the 427.
 
dunkalunk said:
Once the ARL is in place, I doubt the demand for travel to the airport will be very high from Dundas and the 427.
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The ARL will be a premium ($$$) service. It might assist business travellers, but the majority of those who take transit to the airport work there. It's a huge employment node. Extending the Bloor line to Pearson would likely carry more passengers than the ARL would. It could also provide a nice terminus for both the Mississauga Transitway and the Eglinton line.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
What about that parking lot that had the former walmart?
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That is/was the Honeydale Mall and is supposed to be the transit Hub with a new GO Station that would replace Kipling.

There is no density along Dundas or the surrounding area to support a subway at this time. There is a master plan for developing the current Basic Food Lands as well Honeydale Mall Land. Somewhere in the range of 15,000+ units.

To make Kipling accessibly for GO will be a nightmare job. You need to build another tunnel to the west from the new Regional Terminal so an elevator can be install for the existing platform. A new extension tunnel from the existing TTC lower level to this new tunnel will have to be built as well a new elevator.

On the south side, you build a ramp like they are doing at a number of GO station finally these days.

By moving the Regional Terminal to this site would deal with the current issue that is delaying the building of that new terminal.

Just like TTC, all Regional carriers would save travel time, fuel and maintenance by going to this new location. It would allow this terminal to expand down the road if needed, where Kipling cannot even today.

East Mall cut off would run straight in to this new terminal.

As for taking the BD to the airport, headway would be very poor, even if you connect to the new Hub at Renforth and Eglinton. You would be carrying about 1,000-1,500 at peak time and that well below LRT standards, let alone subway from this new terminal. Even if you push it to 3,000 for peak, off peak would be a killer.

This is one place BRT should be use, since MTO has no plans to give up any lanes or land in the 427 ROW for Rapid Transit at the current time or down the road.
 
drum118 said:
That is/was the Honeydale Mall and is supposed to be the transit Hub with a new GO Station that would replace Kipling.

There is no density along Dundas or the surrounding area to support a subway at this time. There is a master plan for developing the current Basic Food Lands as well Honeydale Mall Land. Somewhere in the range of 15,000+ units.

To make Kipling accessibly for GO will be a nightmare job. You need to build another tunnel to the west from the new Regional Terminal so an elevator can be install for the existing platform. A new extension tunnel from the existing TTC lower level to this new tunnel will have to be built as well a new elevator.

On the south side, you build a ramp like they are doing at a number of GO station finally these days.

By moving the Regional Terminal to this site would deal with the current issue that is delaying the building of that new terminal.

Just like TTC, all Regional carriers would save travel time, fuel and maintenance by going to this new location. It would allow this terminal to expand down the road if needed, where Kipling cannot even today.

East Mall cut off would run straight in to this new terminal.

As for taking the BD to the airport, headway would be very poor, even if you connect to the new Hub at Renforth and Eglinton. You would be carrying about 1,000-1,500 at peak time and that well below LRT standards, let alone subway from this new terminal. Even if you push it to 3,000 for peak, off peak would be a killer.

This is one place BRT should be use, since MTO has no plans to give up any lanes or land in the 427 ROW for Rapid Transit at the current time or down the road.
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BRT would carry less people right?
 
nfitz said:
The ARL will be a premium ($$$) service. It might assist business travellers, but the majority of those who take transit to the airport work there. It's a huge employment node. Extending the Bloor line to Pearson would likely carry more passengers than the ARL would. It could also provide a nice terminus for both the Mississauga Transitway and the Eglinton line.
Click to expand...

If ARL ridership will be low, the solution is not to waste money on building another transit mode. The solution is to reduce the ARL fare. Much cheaper overall.
 
The B-D West extension is an interesting one, partially because there are so many potential phasing and terminus options. You have the East Mall option, which would be the cheapest, and would mainly be for operational improvements (the industrial and warehouse commercial in the area wouldn't exactly be a big trip generator, and Cloverdale Mall would still be at least 500m away from the station.

The other option is an extension to Sherway. This would serve an entirely different purpose, because historically malls have been used as transit terminuses for a lot of Toronto's subway lines. The Sheppard Subway currently ends at Fairview. The SRT basically ends at STC (McCowan is a very low-usage station, and it's there primarily for the yard immediately to the east). Yorkdale was near the end of the original Spadina subway, with only Wilson (and it's yard, being further north).

It makes sense to end subway lines at malls, because they are a big driver of off-peak ridership, generally have plenty of parking space (good for Park N Rides, although the TTC really hasn't taken full advantage of this), and bus routes naturally converge there. Not to mention that the area around a lot of malls has been the target of higher density development, even if the absence of a subway (case and point: Sherway).

It may not be at the point where it's worthy of a subway extension now, but if the City undertook a Secondary Plan for the entire extension corridor (and particularly the area around Sherway Mall), I'm confident that they could put enough people within walking distance of the station to make the extension work.

The other thing is that is a possibility is a Park N Ride for Gardiner-bound car travellers. Get off the QEW or 427 at Sherway, take the subway in.
 
And RE: connections to the airport:

In November I had to get from Burlington to Pearson, and I first looked at transit ways to get there. Let me just say that it was a nightmare trying to find a route. If you think connections to the airport from Toronto are bad, man, the connections from west of Pearson are even worse.

What would have been absolutely ideal is a BRT than ran from Long Branch Station, up Brown's Line and the 427 to Pearson. This BRT would hit the Lakeshore GO, a B-D extension, and the future Eglinton LRT.

Peak ridership on this route wouldn't be that high, but it would be a vital north-south link in an area who's transit mainly runs E-W.

It doesn't even need to run along the 427. I would maybe suggest that it run via curb side lanes on West Mall, and then turn on Rathburn and run up Renforth.

Either that, or run it as an express service on the 427 using future HOV lanes.
 
An extension to the airport would also serve Burnamthorpe, Renforth, and maybe a couple of others, and provide stations to scoop up and connect with many Mississauga routes and take their busses off of Toronto streets going to Islington.

As for serving Sherway and Long Branch as well, they should have built the RT on that route instead if Toronto was force fed to use that technology, might even have had that Mark 2's by now running on it.
 
I always thought Sherway would also be an ideal terminus for the 501. Take the streetcar up Browns Line to the mall and integrate it with the new subway station. What wonders that would do for riders in New Toronto/Alderwood.
 
If Bloor-Danforth is going to be extended that far, it is better to extend it along Dundas to Hurontario and connect to the Hurontario LRT.

The B-D line doesn't even serve the Financial District, a diversion to the airport is pointless. An Eglinton subway would do the same job.

There is a reason why transit run mostly E-W rather than N-S in the area: the demand is not there. You people seriously think The West Mall is a more viable subway corridor than Dundas Street?

Extend the subway along corridosr to nodes with potential for mixed-use and high-density. Neither West Mall or the airport qualify.
 
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