Transit Fantasy Maps

[scarberiankhatru]

What if someone wants to go from Cabbagetown to the CNE? You're going to need more than one line that random floats under downtown, hitting all of these "nodes."

Doady: what percentage of Hurontario riders are going north of Square One? Unless riders aren't transferring or getting on/off at Square One, it's two routes in one, with two ridership bases to count (just like the Dufferin bus or the Queen streetcar).

 

[doady]

Doady: what percentage of Hurontario riders are going north of Square One? Unless riders aren't transferring or getting on/off at Square One, it's two routes in one, with two ridership bases to count (just like the Dufferin bus or the Queen streetcar).

Yes a lot of people get on/off at Sq One, but a lot of people get on/off at Dundas too, and that doesn't that mean it is actually three routes in one...

According to your criteria, the Dundas bus itself is 4 routes in one just because almost everyone gets off/on at UTM, Hurontario and Dixie.

I don't see what your point is or what difference it makes. It does show that people along corridors like Hurontario and Dundas don't travel that far and there are a few extremely busy bus stops instead of just minor stops only, which is exactly why a local, limited-stop transit line like a subway is suitable.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

If we were still in the pro-subway era, Hurontario-basically Mississauga's Yonge Street- would definitely have a subway and as far north as Bristol would make sense. A surface LRT/BRT from there to Shopper's World could be fifteen minutes or better.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Yes a lot of people get on/off at Sq One, but a lot of people get on/off at Dundas too, and that doesn't that mean it is actually three routes in one...

According to your criteria, the Dundas bus itself is 4 routes in one just because almost everyone gets off/on at UTM, Hurontario and Dixie.

I don't see what your point is or what difference it makes. It does show that people along corridors like Hurontario and Dundas don't travel that far and there are a few extremely busy bus stops instead of just minor stops only, which is exactly why a local, limited-stop transit line like a subway is suitable.

Such splits make a huge difference in the viability of upgrading a line to a higher form of transit. You're basing your desire for Hurontario line partly on the existing plans for a Yonge extension, which has "lower ridership."

 

[ShonTron]

If we were still in the pro-subway era, Hurontario-basically Mississauga's Yonge Street- would definitely have a subway and as far north as Bristol would make sense. A surface LRT/BRT from there to Shopper's World could be fifteen minutes or better.

You're talking about Transfer City - Peel Region edition. Bristol Road is hardly the place for a subway terminus, unless you were eyeing that Peel DSB land on the northwest side. And LRT from Bristol to Steeles expects you to transfer to a bus to get to Downtown Brampton, one of the Places to Grow nodes and the GO/VIA intermodal opportunity. Any more howlers of transit plans?

LRT on Hurontario, given logical stop placement, pre-boarding fare collection, and building it as one route from Port Credit to DT Brampton, is ideal. Some parts might be underground, such as navigation through Port Credit and Downtown Brampton (and possibly a full-blown station at MCC to connect to the big terminal there) It's not going to need a full-blown subway, especially as it is not replacing any half-finished subway corridors.

 

[doady]

LRT on Hurontario will be okay as long there is no extension of the Bloor-Danforth line into Mississauga.

I also don't think the Yonge subway should be extended either and that is not just because it is overcrowded to begin with. Richmond Hill Centre is less than 2 km away from farmland and is the same distance from Union as MCC is. It is a ridiculous extension compared to the other options (Sheppard, DRL, etc). Yonge is like Dundas: it only needs an LRT.

That is what upsets me about the current transit plans. We are planning subway where there should be LRT and we are planning LRT's where there should be subways.

 

[Edward Skira]

Richmond Hill Centre is less than 2 km away from farmland and is the same distance from Union as MCC is.

Finch Station was also 2 Km away from farmland when it was built. Its done ok don't you think?

 

[yllianos]

IMO, subways should concentrate on serving corridors. The direct connection between different nodes should be left to the commuter rail system.



I meant the subway system itself doesn't reach the airport.

The AirTrain is short rail line that at each end connects to the subway and the Long Island Rail Road to each terminal of the airport. I specifically had the AirTrain in mind when I drew the Airport line on my map and you can see the similarities.

Great map btw, though I should point that the Mississauga Transitway is not line in itself, but rather corridor for many bus lines, including GO Bus, and that may include lines to York U or Islington.

Hey, thanks. I actually made a mega map (not including the Mississuaga BRT) that included lines from a wide range of people.

 

[doady]

Finch Station was also 2 Km away from farmland when it was built. Its done ok don't you think?

Did I say that the Yonge extension wouldn't do ok? I was just pointing out that there many other possible extensions that could do just as well, if not better.

Do you people truly believe that subway into Mississauga would be a failure yet a subway into Richmodn would be success? That is sad if you do.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I think a Yonge extension would probably do better than 6 km of new subways *anywhere*, including downtown. Langstaff is also 4km closer to Union than MCC (and one less transfer).

The Langstaff station may never have as many riders as other terminus stations in the system currently do. Then again, I'm not aware of any other systems in the world with subway terminus stations as busy as ours. Don't use the final stretch/station as an excuse to condemn the whole thing - everyone's doing this with the Spadina extension, where the whole project is deemed worthless because the final 2km of 8km don't run through Kowloon and require Tokyo people-pushers.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

It's not like a Richmond Hill extension would severely overcapacitate the YUS line. I'm sure at least two-thirds of commuters boarding at Finch aren't even Torontonians anyway. What the extension does do however is get a mess of vehicles- TTC, YRT/VIVA, GO, BT- off Yonge Street and minimizes length of travel commuters face heading down Yonge on the surface.

Mississauga, unlike the Yonge corridor which has enough density to support 500m apart stations, has vast expanses of urban sprawl that'd make extending BD beyond Hwy 427/West Mall a multibillion dollar waste that virtually priceless BRT or under $500 million LRT can provide.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I'm sure at least two-thirds of commuters boarding at Finch aren't even Torontonians anyway.

Don't be so sure about that: the TTC routes that pour in and out of Finch have a combined ridership of 135,000 per day. Now, your statement could possibly be true regarding the extension because the heavily used Finch West and Finch East routes (and possibly Drewry/Cummer) will not be replaced by it, but even then, the Steeles West & East buses are well-used and probably equal YRT's entire ridership by themselves...YRT routes feeding into Finch have massive growth potential, though, not to mention decent walk-in traffic along Yonge.

 

[Dan416]

It's not like a Richmond Hill extension would severely overcapacitate the YUS line. I'm sure at least two-thirds of commuters boarding at Finch aren't even Torontonians anyway. What the extension does do however is get a mess of vehicles- TTC, YRT/VIVA, GO, BT- off Yonge Street and minimizes length of travel commuters face heading down Yonge on the surface.

Mississauga, unlike the Yonge corridor which has enough density to support 500m apart stations, has vast expanses of urban sprawl that'd make extending BD beyond Hwy 427/West Mall a multibillion dollar waste that virtually priceless BRT or under $500 million LRT can provide.

I think the point is that Dundas is ripe for intensification, and the line would see a lot of use from the busy North-South routes like Dixie, Tomken, Cawthra, Hurontario. Just having the subway in Mississauga would make people take public transit more.

If Mississauga had the balls, it would at least have subways along Dundas East and Hurontario.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

You're talking about Transfer City - Peel Region edition. Bristol Road is hardly the place for a subway terminus, unless you were eyeing that Peel DSB land on the northwest side. And LRT from Bristol to Steeles expects you to transfer to a bus to get to Downtown Brampton, one of the Places to Grow nodes and the GO/VIA intermodal opportunity. Any more howlers of transit plans?

Yeah, that's what I've come accustomed too. I take 19N or 202 to Shoppers World then transfer onto the 52 en route to downtown. The residential/industrial divide along Hurontario occurs roughly at Bristol so I thought subways north of there would be unsuitable at least upto County Court/Ray Lawson. Ideally any form of rapid transit along Hurontario/Main from Lakeshore to Neilson would suit me just fine as I only live 10 mins away from the GO station. Then again all-day GO service through Brampton would be even better.

I think the point is that Dundas is ripe for intensification, and the line would see a lot of use from the busy North-South routes like Dixie, Tomken, Cawthra, Hurontario. Just having the subway in Mississauga would make people take public transit more.

If Mississauga had the balls, it would at least have subways along Dundas East and Hurontario.

I don't think it's physiologically possible for anti-subway advocate Mayor Hazel McCillion to have cahones !

Where to route BD next isn't as simple as you'd think. For the longest time Sherway Gardens was seen as the natural western terminus (before big box hell). Then there was something called the Etobicoke RT which would route between Kipling and the airport, but now with alot of developments occuring along the 27 corridor since (Etobicoke Centre, Airport Corporate, Skyway Industrial Complex) the subway itself could veer northwards much like its done in Scarborough. Routing to MCC, according to documents I've seen on the Toronto Transit website, would parallel the GO Milton Line from Kipling to Hurontario, stopping only at Sherway, Dixie, Cawthra, Cooksville and MCC.

 

[drum118]

I think the point is that Dundas is ripe for intensification, and the line would see a lot of use from the busy North-South routes like Dixie, Tomken, Cawthra, Hurontario. Just having the subway in Mississauga would make people take public transit more.

If Mississauga had the balls, it would at least have subways along Dundas East and Hurontario.

A subway alone Dundas from the West Mall to Dixie can help be redeveloped that area to houses and employ 250,000 ppl. It is ripe for redevelopment now as it being doing a slow death for the last 25 years. This is between the CP tracks on the south and .5k on the north side. There is no north-south streets in this area. There were a few, but they have been block off.

From Dixie west, you can add another 100,000 on the low end.

Having the subway run under Dundas, not the CP tracks will gain the riders. The only problem, stations distance will be 1km or more which will require surface transit because of low ridership. There is a need for 1 station between West Mall and Dixie area and Dixie and Hurontario.

There is no reason why Subway and LRT cannot work together on Hurontario as the subway on Hurontario would not be making any stop north of Dundas until Sq One as there is not a stop along the route now or in 30 years that will support a station in the first place. The only stop that comes close is Elm Dr.

The Dundas Subway will connect to the Airport subway at Sq One.