Transit City Plan

[kd86]

I think it's safe to say that if you're going to spend the billion or so it would cost to build a rail tunnel to/through MCC, then that line is going to be frequent and electric.

Think about it another way... build a subway line between Kipling and MCC, but then run those trains express to downtown Toronto via the rail corridors in order to ensure sufficient capacity (the BD line is already extremely busy) and decent travel times.

Sadly, Metrolinx's The Big Move does not call for any high-capacity rail service to MCC. Just the busway and the Hurontario LRT. Frankly, without a proper rail connection to the rest of the GTA, I don't think that MCC will ever become a focus for office development.

You know that’s one thing I never got with Metrolinx and the Ontario Government. They invested so much on a subway to Vaughan City Centre or whatever it’s called but how bout MCC. It is already an established City Centre yet there are no current plans to provide it with a higher order of transit to Toronto. That’s of course if you consider the bus-way and LRT rapid........but let’s not go there. I would thought that the Eglinton Line whether its LRT, light metro, or full subway, could of had a branch like originally displayed in the TC display boards. One branct that would head towards MMC and the other branch to the Airport.

 

[golodhendil]

I don't even know how you would stick bilevels underground for any extended period of time.

Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Zurich, Sydney, and New York all run bilevel trains in more-or-less extensive underground networks, though those are all indeed electrified. Boston runs its diesel-pulled bilevels through sections of tunnel that will continue to expand as the rail line is being decked over for development.

 

[nfitz]

You know that’s one thing I never got with Metrolinx and the Ontario Government. They invested so much on a subway to Vaughan City Centre or whatever it’s called but how bout MCC.

The explanation is simple. Vaughan and Region of York asked for subway (and provided some money for it). Mississauga and Region of Peel haven't asked. Another factor is that it only took an additional 2 km to extend from the proposed subway terminus to Vaughan Centre, as opposed to 11 km from Kipling station in Mississauga.

 

[rbt]

The explanation is simple. Vaughan and Region of York asked for subway (and provided some money for it). Mississauga and Region of Peel haven't asked. Another factor is that it only took an additional 2 km to extend from the proposed subway terminus to Vaughan Centre, as opposed to 11 km from Kipling station in Mississauga.

Mississauga has actively been against extending Bloor to MCC. Hazel had a strong preference for a connection of some type along Eglinton which was tens of km away at that point.

 

[gweed123]

Mississauga has actively been against extending Bloor to MCC. Hazel had a strong preference for a connection of some type along Eglinton which was tens of km away at that point.

It will be interesting to see how Mississauga's position on transit connections with Toronto changes in the post-Hazel era. We could potentially see a wide variety of transit options placed on the table by mayoral candidates in the 1st election in which she doesn't run.

 

[Dan416]

The explanation is simple. Vaughan and Region of York asked for subway (and provided some money for it). Mississauga and Region of Peel haven't asked. Another factor is that it only took an additional 2 km to extend from the proposed subway terminus to Vaughan Centre, as opposed to 11 km from Kipling station in Mississauga.

I think you're overstating the difference in distance because you're measuring from the original terminus at Steeles to Vaughan Centre, when you should be measuring from Downsview if you want to make an accurate comparison. The equivalent of a Steeles West station on the Bloor line would be Sherway, which is about 7-8 km from MCC depending on routing. So not 2 versus 11, more like 2 versus 8.

Remember, UTM and UTSC are both about 30 km from St George, as a point of comparison.

 

[nfitz]

I think you're overstating the difference in distance because you're measuring from the original terminus at Steeles to Vaughan Centre, when you should be measuring from Downsview if you want to make an accurate comparison. The equivalent of a Steeles West station on the Bloor line would be Sherway, which is about 7-8 km from MCC depending on routing. So not 2 versus 11, more like 2 versus 8..

Well 2 versus 8 if you really must ... though Toronto had made it clear they had no interest in expanding to Sherway after the RTES study indicated the peak hour demand was ... what was it ... only 700 people? But whatever ... the primary point was that neither Mississauga nor Peel has shown no interest in the idea ... and one is a much more significant undertaking.

 

[AnarchoSocialist]

It will be interesting to see how Mississauga's position on transit connections with Toronto changes in the post-Hazel era. We could potentially see a wide variety of transit options placed on the table by mayoral candidates in the 1st election in which she doesn't run.

Is there any choice for Mississauga but to start figuring out to better connect themselves with the rest of the GTA? It would be crazy for them not to start figuring out how to create, and start pushing for a, GO/regional rail connection with Toronto.

 

[accura407]

Well I don't think anyone here debates why the subway was extended to york university! it is justified.

York U said that they do NOT want buses to enter the campus once the subway comes so then Steeles West was the bare minimum necesasaary.

Then vaughan looked at it and said "well if its gonna reach steeles west, might as well give it a small push north to a true terminus"

And we can all agree that in the long term, vaughan metropolitan centre is a better subway terminus than a steeles west station beside a ups facility!

Could the extension have been phased in? Maybe. But I'm pretty sure its cheaper to do it all at once. And really...its just an extra 2km. But the benefit I see immideately is the new 407 station that will be the next "york mills" GO Bus mega gateway for the entire region!

These 2 extra stations have the most potential for growth more than any other stations on the extension (save for maybe keele/finch)

 

[Dan416]

By your definition of "growth" we should put subway stations in Caledon because it has even more potential for growth (land available for development) than Vaughan.

 

[accura407]

Yeah but its not in the same context. Say for example there is a subway at Bovaird and Hurontario and its being extended up to Mayfield and Hurontario. Then if Caledon planned some major downtown 2km north of that then yes...I would say go for it

However that is not the case...

This is also why I don't agree with the yonge extension to richmond hill centre. Its not relatively close to the existing subway at all. It would be far more beneficial to extend the subway to Steeles and then build an LRT from an easy transfer underground portal all the way to 19th avenue with an underground section from Major Mack to Crosby. With one underground station.

Back to the topic though... Yes an underground spur from the milton line to square 1 would be totally worth the money! They could use the EMU's that they plan to use for the air-rail link. (2-car trainsets) with high frequencies. An elevated viaduct or extra property would probably be required along the milton line however. But its probably still cheaper than a subway extension.

 

[Dan416]

I highly dislike the idea of a Milton spur to MCC. Such an amputation would be worse than the Sheppard East LRT, cutting off the whole Northwest of the city from MCC.

If you're going to go to the trouble of serving MCC with the Milton line, then reroute the whole thing to serve MCC, even if it were to require rebuilding Cooksville and Erindale stations.

 

[gweed123]

I highly dislike the idea of a Milton spur to MCC. Such an amputation would be worse than the Sheppard East LRT, cutting off the whole Northwest of the city from MCC.

If you're going to go to the trouble of serving MCC with the Milton line, then reroute the whole thing to serve MCC, even if it were to require rebuilding Cooksville and Erindale stations.

I would have to say that I agree with this. If you're going through all the trouble of tunnelling, might as well make the tunnel a main line instead of a spur. Maybe have 2 GO lines diverge east of MCC, and leave the freight on the current alignment. The GO lines pass through MCC, and then merge with the existing lines at some point west of MCC. Seems to me that running freight through a tunnel like that could potentially be a disaster.

EDIT: Just after a quick look at Google Earth, maybe a good point for the lines to split would be at around Cliff Rd N (directly north of there intersects with Central Pkwy E), where the line would then run underneath the creek directly east of MCC (the creek runs N-S), and then vear NW, cross under the 403, and use the hydro corridor until it met up with the exitsing line again just west of Creditview Rd. This alignment would need about 3.5km worth of tunnel, and about 4km worth of at-grade/overpass/underpass. No doubt this would be a pretty expensive project, but could potentially provide a pretty big benefit.

 

[CDL.TO]

I concur. Using the 2006 Census, there's over 265,000 people in northwest Mississauga (north of the 403, west of Hurontario). That's a big chunk of population that shouldn't be ignored; about 40% of Mississauga's population. In fact, that one quarter of Mississauga is home to more people than the entire city of Vaughan. By comparison, only 11% of Mississauga's population lives south of the QEW. Milton could add at least 100,000 more people to that corridor.

With fare integration and frequent trains, such a re-routed line could easily become a "Mississauga subway". Mississauga Transit routes could be re-designed to a hub-and-spoke operation from the train stations, where you would change to a quick train direct to "downtown" Mississauga, change at Kipling for Etobicoke, change at Dundas West for UofT and the west end, and stay on for Downtown Toronto.

 

[nfitz]

Current timefame has Phase 1 bringing the express train to Cooksvile by 2033. Phase 2 would extend it to MCC sometime after 2033. Nothing to say it couldn't go further than MCC one day. MCC will be a huge transport hub long before 2033 ... perhaps we should discuss where to extend it then - it might be clearer. Assuming that Metrolinx delivers on the timeframe it gave out in 2008.