Transit City Plan

[Dan416]

Considering that it is by far the largest "node" in the 905, I would certainly agree with that. If any 905 node deserves a subway, it's MCC. Especially considering the fact that MT's entire rapid transit system is being geared to running through Square One (Transitway, Hurontario LRT).

Although I think honestly at this point the closest thing that MCC will be getting to a subway is an extension of a branch of the Eglinton LRT, upgrading the portion of the Transitway corridor from Martin Grove to MCC (Ottawa will have completed their BRT to LRT conversion by then, so some lessons can be learned).

I don't think the Eglinton LRT comes any closer to MCC than Kipling does.

Err, okay, I checked and it actually is closer from Eglinton & Commerce to MCC (10 km) versus Kipling (12 km). But I still think using Dundas makes more sense, seeing as you would serve Cloverdale, Sherway, and all the businesses along Dundas versus, well, not much of anything on Eglinton East.

Perhaps they could extend the Pearson Rail extension to MCC and have that as a route on the GO system. Also to provide a fast trip to and through west Toronto and downtown.

I really don't think it's feasible (running under the airport? really?)

 

[gweed123]

I don't think the Eglinton LRT comes any closer to MCC than Kipling does.

Err, okay, I checked and it actually is closer from Eglinton & Commerce to MCC (10 km) versus Kipling (12 km). But I still think using Dundas makes more sense, seeing as you would serve Cloverdale, Sherway, and all the businesses along Dundas versus, well, not much of anything on Eglinton East.

But you can likely do the Eglinton connection for 20% of the cost of the subway extension, which means it a) stands a better chance of being done, and b) can be done sooner than a subway extension can. It would also use (future) existing infrastructure, and just upgrade it. The stop spacing would also potentially be wider along the Transitway route, providing a pretty rapid link.

Also, an Eglinton link would in no significant way preclude a B-D subway extension. It's like saying that because there's a Sheppard extension to STC, that you can't do a B-D extension.

 

[Dan416]

But you can likely do the Eglinton connection for 20% of the cost of the subway extension, which means it a) stands a better chance of being done, and b) can be done sooner than a subway extension can. It would also use (future) existing infrastructure, and just upgrade it. The stop spacing would also potentially be wider along the Transitway route, providing a pretty rapid link.

Also, an Eglinton link would in no significant way preclude a B-D subway extension. It's like saying that because there's a Sheppard extension to STC, that you can't do a B-D extension.

Are you referring to the Mississauga BRT? It only runs along Eglinton from Etobicoke Creek to Renforth. Unless you're suggesting replacing the whole thing with LRT, in which case it really wouldn't be an Eglinton LRT extension, it would be a Mississauga BRT conversion.And seeing how useless I think the MBRT is, I don't think that's a good idea.

 

[Electrify]

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to lower the height of boarding area of the 6 subway statiions rather than changing to high floor LRTs?

I'm not going to pretend to be an engineer, but I would think lowering the platforms would mess with the supports and would likely cause the stations to collapse. If I'm wrong on this, please correct me.

So you would make the possible and unlikely (you do realize that Ford is now the mayor right?) conversion of the subway easier in exchange more making the rest of the system more expensive and harder to build? Not to mention that much of the planning would have to be updated to adjust for high floor platforms in the middle of the street.

Making the stops high platform would be far simpler than scrapping all the pre-work which has been completed and starting from square one.

 

[gweed123]

Are you referring to the Mississauga BRT? It only runs along Eglinton from Etobicoke Creek to Renforth. Unless you're suggesting replacing the whole thing with LRT, in which case it really wouldn't be an Eglinton LRT extension, it would be a Mississauga BRT conversion.And seeing how useless I think the MBRT is, I don't think that's a good idea.

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. MCC is going to be the employment hub for Mississauga, so it's going to have a relatively small amount of E-W transit throughput along the MBRT. If there's going to be an LRT-BRT linear transfer anywhere, it makes the most sense to have it at MCC. East of MCC, it would be a branch of the ECLRT, which would provide a rail link to MCC. West of MCC, it would be the MBRT as proposed. The ROW will already be built, so the upgrade cost will be substantially less than doing it from scratch. Basically what would happen is 1 branch would go to the airport, one branch would go to MCC. The combined frequencies east of Martin Grove (where they would merge) would be enough to provide a decent headway on the rest of the ECLRT. This of course is assuming that the Richview portion is changed from the current proposal, because having a rapid transit connection to Mississauga that starts to crawl and stop at red lights once it reaches Toronto isn't exactly ideal.

It wouldn't be quite as good as a subway, but heck, it's not like it's an orphaned line that ends at a random point like the SRT. At least it would be a line that would have regional implications, and would be a relatively effective midtown route.

 

[valvenis]

I'm not an engineer either, but excavating just the area that people board the trains shouldn't mess with the support.

I don't know either - hopefully one of urban Toronto's resident engineers will have an answer.

BTW - what are your thoughts on raising the tracks at the stations? Adding a new foundation shouldn't negatively affect the supports.

 

[nfitz]

Perhaps they could extend the Pearson Rail extension to MCC and have that as a route on the GO system. Also to provide a fast trip to and through west Toronto and downtown.

Seems a rather round-about way to get to Mississauga. Wouldn't the current Metrolinx plan of putting the express train from Union and Kipling to MCC make more sense, and probably be cheaper?

 

[drum118]

Seems a rather round-about way to get to Mississauga. Wouldn't the current Metrolinx plan of putting the express train from Union and Kipling to MCC make more sense, and probably be cheaper?

Not only is it around-about way, but the most costly and service next to no one.

 

[Dan416]

To this day there have been no studies to suggest any diversion of the Milton line to MCC that I'm aware of. We talk a lot about it here, but I don't see any concrete evidence that GO is going to undertake such a massive project. I don't even know how you would stick bilevels underground for any extended period of time. It's all well and good to imagine Milton being rerouted through MCC, but i just doesn't seem very practical.

 

[Electrify]

I'm not an engineer either, but excavating just the area that people board the trains shouldn't mess with the support.

I don't know either - hopefully one of urban Toronto's resident engineers will have an answer.

BTW - what are your thoughts on raising the tracks at the stations? Adding a new foundation shouldn't negatively affect the supports.

That could work too - but I could see it costing a lot more than making ramps for the proposed stops a few feet higher. If that is out of the question, then raising the trackbed to accommodate LRVs could work as well.

Basically all but the most anti-TC people here want is a single and rapid rail line between Sheppard-Yonge or Downsview and Scarborough. We don't care if it is light rail, heavy rail, or monorail.

 

[Voltz]

To this day there have been no studies to suggest any diversion of the Milton line to MCC that I'm aware of. We talk a lot about it here, but I don't see any concrete evidence that GO is going to undertake such a massive project. I don't even know how you would stick bilevels underground for any extended period of time. It's all well and good to imagine Milton being rerouted through MCC, but i just doesn't seem very practical.

It is much more practical and less massive than a subway extension, and if the channel tunnel can take double deck car carriers between France and England then getting bi-levels up to MCC should not be a problem.

 

[nfitz]

To this day there have been no studies to suggest any diversion of the Milton line to MCC that I'm aware of. We talk a lot about it here, but I don't see any concrete evidence that GO is going to undertake such a massive project.

It's in the Metrolinx Big Move. But I'm not aware of any detailed studies.

I don't even know how you would stick bilevels underground for any extended period of time.

Other cities do this with no problem ... I'd assume it would be electrified though. Nothing to say the service would be bilevel though.

It's all well and good to imagine Milton being rerouted through MCC, but i just doesn't seem very practical.

I don't believe Metrolinx's plan didn't call for rerouting the Milton service, just for a spur from Cooksville to Mississauga City Centre.

 

[Asterix]

It is much more practical and less massive than a subway extension, and if the channel tunnel can take double deck car carriers between France and England then getting bi-levels up to MCC should not be a problem.

Are those Chunnel double deckers being pulled by an electric or deisel engine? The former you can run through a long tunnel, the latter you can't, unless you have very extensive ventilation (not too many ventilation shafts on the Chunnel).

 

[Voltz]

Are those Chunnel double deckers being pulled by an electric or deisel engine? The former you can run through a long tunnel, the latter you can't, unless you have very extensive ventilation (not too many ventilation shafts on the Chunnel).

By the time service gets high enough to warrant a spur to MCC it would be electrified anyway.

 

[CDL.TO]

I think it's safe to say that if you're going to spend the billion or so it would cost to build a rail tunnel to/through MCC, then that line is going to be frequent and electric.

Think about it another way... build a subway line between MCC and Kipling, but then run those trains express to downtown Toronto from Kipling via the rail corridors (perhaps with 2 or 3 stops on the way) in order to ensure sufficient capacity (the BD line is already extremely busy) and decent travel times.

Sadly, Metrolinx's The Big Move does not call for any high-capacity rail service to MCC. Just the busway and the Hurontario LRT. Frankly, without a proper rail connection to the rest of the GTA, I don't think that MCC will ever become a focus for office development.