Transit City Plan

[Tulse]

How does this fit with Ford's alleged fiscal responsibility? Debt is debt, whether through private or public financing.

 

[gweed123]

I'll wait to see the details on the TIF to make a judgement on whether or not this is ultimately a good deal. However, if the private sector is involved in this, a Hudak government would be less likely to pull the plug on it. If private sector involvement and TIFs are the insulation from political swing that we need in order to get things built, then so be it.

 

[superman]

The Transit Planned Revealed?

Here is a Toronto Star article that is a bit more detailed.

Mayor Rob Ford’s office is proposing a public-private partnership by the city to extend the subway along Sheppard Ave., leaving $8.15 billion in provincial transit funds for an underground light rail line along Eglinton that could be extended to the Scarborough Town Centre.

A Sheppard subway extension would cost between $3.4 billion and $4.4 billion and be owned by the city.

The Eglinton light rail line would be provincially financed and owned and would run straight to Kennedy station.

It’s not clear yet whether the obsolete Scarborough RT would become an extension of the Bloor-Danforth subway line or be converted to the light rail technology being used on Eglinton.

The city wants it to be subway — an expensive option that would require realigning the SRT route — but relieve some crowding on the Bloor-Danforth line.

So it looks like Sheppard will continue as a subway, Eglinton will continue as an underground LRT line with the surface route still in question, and I would put money the RT is still up in the air.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The subtext on this is that Metrolinx told the Mayor's Office to get stuffed and refused to fund the Sheppard line at the expense of the Eglinton LRT.

 

[Voltz]

How long before City Council see Ford's transit plan for what it is and votes to continue as previously planned? If anything this proposal should help enough of them see through Ford's nonsense.

 

[superman]

How long before City Council see Ford's transit plan for what it is and votes to continue as previously planned? If anything this proposal should help enough of them see through Ford's nonsense.

I don't see how council is going to oppose upgrading Sheppard to a subway line (which was always the plan before Miller scrapped it) while the Eglinton and Scarborough line stays the same. The only thing that is yet to be seen is what will happen to Finch.

 

[MetroMan]

Having just skimmed through this, what I'm getting is that Sheppard would be deleted from the original Transity City plans and have its own separate funding. If true, this leaves more money to upgrade Eglinton to fully underground and probably leaves the other lines' funding intact.

Finch is a problem that needs to be addressed and can't be left out of the plans. I imagine it could stay almost exactly as it is because it won't result in lost car lanes.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Let's see. The Ontario government bailed out the auto industry for $4 billion. I guess they can return the favour, ... not.

Business may want to "own" the property for the depreciation tax benefit, but remember what happened in the US when banks (IE. AIG) owned transit vehicles and leased them back. See this link.

For any benefit, the businesses will demand very high density along the route. Will the neighbours go for 40, 50, or 60 story condo and office buildings?

 

[rbt]

I don't see how council is going to oppose upgrading Sheppard to a subway line (which was always the plan before Miller scrapped it) while the Eglinton and Scarborough line stays the same. The only thing that is yet to be seen is what will happen to Finch.

The proposal appears, based on very limited information, to have City Hall take on a good chunk of a $4.1B in debt (private financing with payments coming from increased taxes is a debt owing). This is 2 times more than Miller added over his two terms for a variety of projects in a single shot.

Actually, I wonder if the CFO or budget chief have seen this because it goes pretty strongly against their recent suggestions that the city decrease its debt/income ratio.

 

[Dan416]

This sounds like a reasonable compromise. I'm not all gung-ho for public-private partnerships, but it's worth a try I think.

 

[SlickFranky]

The proposal appears, based on very limited information, to have City Hall take on a good chunk of a $4.1B in debt (private financing with payments coming from increased taxes is a debt owing). This is 2 times more than Miller added over his two terms for a variety of projects in a single shot.

Actually, I wonder if the CFO or budget chief have seen this because it goes pretty strongly against their recent suggestions that the city decrease its debt/income ratio.

That's how I read this too...and I'm very confused as to why council would have any interest in this. Is Ford just looking for a way out of his Sheppard Subway promise?

 

[Voltz]

I don't see how council is going to oppose upgrading Sheppard to a subway line (which was always the plan before Miller scrapped it) while the Eglinton and Scarborough line stays the same. The only thing that is yet to be seen is what will happen to Finch.

Any idiot can propose building whatever subway line they want. But the "plan"(and even calling it a plan is a stretch) to pay for it is just a pie in the sky fantasy that simply won't work, and even if it could then there is no need to get the private sector involved as the city is still paying for it either way.

This is just like his NFL idea, there is nothing concrete behind the idea beyond Ford yapping on about the private sector.

 

[GraphicMatt]

That's how I read this too...and I'm very confused as to why council would have any interest in this. Is Ford just looking for a way out of his Sheppard Subway promise?

I suspect this is the case. Negotiations with Metrolinx did not go well, so this is the mayor taking his ball and going home. I'd be surprised to see quick movement on this after the announcement.

 

[MetroMan]

The subtext on this is that Metrolinx told the Mayor's Office to get stuffed and refused to fund the Sheppard line at the expense of the Eglinton LRT.

Exactly. Previously the city was paying nothing for Transit City. Now all that is happening is the province is refusing to fund this new project and the city is paying for it.

 

[Voltz]

The proposal appears, based on very limited information, to have City Hall take on a good chunk of a $4.1B in debt (private financing with payments coming from increased taxes is a debt owing). This is 2 times more than Miller added over his two terms for a variety of projects in a single shot.

Actually, I wonder if the CFO or budget chief have seen this because it goes pretty strongly against their recent suggestions that the city decrease its debt/income ratio.

As I just recalled from the campaign, Ford promised that he could get one billion dollars from private developers building next to his promised subway extensions. The majority of which he would spend on roads. But now this buffoon seems to think he has underestimated himself and will be getting at least four billion.