Transit City Plan

[Epi]

Are you lampooning the LRT fanatic position here? I honestly can't tell anymore. If not, and I actually need to clarify this, then no I am not suggesting that. I have elsewhere referred to underground busways as the "pinnacle of dumb," so genuine it doesn't even make grammar. My point was that you can make bus spacing whatever the hell you want it to be at practically no cost. If LRTs extract a speed benefit from wider stop spacing, so do bus routes. If one of the main reason an "LRT" is faster than the bus route it replaces is stop spacing (+ POP boarding) it doesn't take an MBA to figure out that you can probably get 90% of the benefit with 10% of the cost.

Well the other major reason why Transit City will be faster than traditional bus routes is the semi-exclusive ROW.

Sure you can also built bus semi-exclusive ROWs, but generally you get lower capacity. You can only run buses so close together due to start/stop and safety. Meanwhile one train (or two trains coupled together) have a far higher capacity than any bus ever will. So not only does a semi-exclusive ROW LRT have all the speed advantages, it also has far higher capacity.

 

[Voltz]

I don't mean all, either...buses are ideal for Sheppard east of Agincourt. Unfortunately, the LRT is proposed to run far beyond its best before date, all the way to the Rouge where the only potential riders are raccoons.

They are actually forecasting 1000 people per hour will ride sheppard east of morningside. Obviously not enough to require LRT, but it is still more than nothing.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

They are actually forecasting 1000 people per hour will ride sheppard east of morningside. Obviously not enough to require LRT, but it is still more than nothing.

They can forecast whatever they want by plugging certain numbers into the computer model to justify extending it beyond Morningside (1000 just so happens to be the exact threshold for "justifying" LRT...).

This doesn't mean it's realistic, even if they're assuming transit's mode share will double or triple in the lightly populated areas east of Morningside (and it certainly won't by offering riders an extra 1-2km/hr of vehicle speed).

Ridership will also be surprisingly low west of Markham if the RT is extended, splitting the route, and won't pick up until west of Midland (west of where people tend to use the RT). It all adds up to half the line being an utterly pointless waste of money that won't be a bit improved over what buses can easily do.

Meanwhile, the rest of Rome burns...

 

[waterloowarrior]

hey these people deserve to be lifted out of poverty and have a more walkable community through the power of light rail

(pictured is an area that will see over $100 million worth of LRT)*

 

[W. K. Lis]

hey these people deserve to be lifted out of poverty and have a more walkable community through the power of light rail

(pictured is an area that will see over $100 million worth of LRT)

Looking at the image, you will see an impediment that has to be solved before the implementation of Transit City. The cul-de-sac. You can guess where the LRT stops could go in the above picture, but how are the potential customers to get to the stop from a street that curves away from the corner?

The city may have to buy those corner houses and put in a walkway. Or a developer may have to be persuaded to create a walkway through their development.

 

[Second_in_pie]

^ ^ That's actually a good point/idea. Of course, the City wants all the TC routes to suddenly be lined by mixed use mid-rises with cafes, trees and outdoor patios. Realistically, walkways through residential areas like waterloowarrior's picture might be needed and the City should be thinking about that. It's probably one of the things the planners are going to think and say "Oh Snap!" halfway through the project.

 

[Hipster Duck]

You can guess where the LRT stops could go in the above picture, but how are the potential customers to get to the stop from a street that curves away from the corner? The city may have to buy those corner houses and put in a walkway.

I'm sure this won't encounter any resistance from the neighbourhood residents. Actually, I've heard that some homeowners are practically begging the city to go through with this.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Looking at the image, you will see an impediment that has to be solved before the implementation of Transit City. The cul-de-sac. You can guess where the LRT stops could go in the above picture, but how are the potential customers to get to the stop from a street that curves away from the corner?

The city may have to buy those corner houses and put in a walkway. Or a developer may have to be persuaded to create a walkway through their development.

The streets off Sheppard already have walkways to Sheppard.

The reality is that suburbs are just as walkable as anywhere else...there's just nothing to walk to other than the bus station. Malvern has no shortage of walkways and pathways connecting everything.

 

[kettal]

Looking at the image, you will see an impediment that has to be solved before the implementation of Transit City. The cul-de-sac. You can guess where the LRT stops could go in the above picture, but how are the potential customers to get to the stop from a street that curves away from the corner?

The city may have to buy those corner houses and put in a walkway. Or a developer may have to be persuaded to create a walkway through their development.

If you look closer at this area, it's actually got surprisingly good pedestrian connections to Sheppard, even from the cul-de sacs.

That's not to say they shouldn't be bulldozed eventually

 

[doady]

Looking at the image, you will see an impediment that has to be solved before the implementation of Transit City. The cul-de-sac. You can guess where the LRT stops could go in the above picture, but how are the potential customers to get to the stop from a street that curves away from the corner?

The city may have to buy those corner houses and put in a walkway. Or a developer may have to be persuaded to create a walkway through their development.

I can already see walkways in that image...

Walkways are not enough though. Single-family homes are not good enough. The density just isn't there for LRT and their is not chance for intensification.

 

[ShonTron]

Looking at the image, you will see an impediment that has to be solved before the implementation of Transit City. The cul-de-sac. You can guess where the LRT stops could go in the above picture, but how are the potential customers to get to the stop from a street that curves away from the corner?

I got it! Open the streets and add signalized intersections for every former cul-de-sac that meets Sheppard. Then we can have Walking City, because even the new LRVs will be stuck behind every un-prioritized light, left turn signals and all, making walking a better option. After all, no one should live so far from work that they can't walk!

 

[kettal]

I can already see walkways in that image...

Walkways are not enough though. Single-family homes are not good enough. The density just isn't there for LRT and their is not chance for intensification.

It's no worse than Vaughan's subway corridor.

 

[Second_in_pie]

It's no worse than Vaughan's subway corridor.

OH SNAP!

I guess that's justification for extending the Sheppard Subway to Morningside

 

[kettal]

Two wrongs make a right.

 

[doady]

It's no worse than Vaughan's subway corridor.

Last I checked, there weren't many cul-de-sacs and single family homes along that subway extension.