Transit City Plan

[kettal]

There is some low density residential, there's lands which will always be reserved for a private toll highway, and then there's many big box stores. These are no better than this small fraction of Sheppard east that we are obsessing over.

 

[waterloowarrior]

It's no worse than Vaughan's subway corridor.

There is some low density residential, there's lands which will always be reserved for a private toll highway, and then there's many big box stores. These are no better than this small fraction of Sheppard east that we are obsessing over.

But does the city actually have plans to redevelop the cul-de-sac neighbourhoods like in the picture on the previous page? They talk about Transit City and its "Avenues" but only about half the Sheppard line is designated as an Avenue (areas west of McCowan). What about the east half of Sheppard East? VCC on the other hand is planned for high density supported by provincial plans and things like the lot fabric, better transportation, history of development and existing uses will make it much easier to redevelop

 

[Dan416]

If Sheppard East looks like that, then you might as well put LRT on every street in Mississauga, because like 50% of Mississauga is covered in cul-de-sacs which are apparently ripe for LRT.

 

[nfitz]

What's bizarre about Sheppard East, is the only major node to the east is the Zoo - but they seem to be planning to stop short. I've seen a lot of people on the Scarborough bus getting on at Sheppard and getting off at the zoo.

 

[waterloowarrior]

If Sheppard East looks like that, then you might as well put LRT on every street in Mississauga, because like 50% of Mississauga is covered in cul-de-sacs which are apparently ripe for LRT.

To be fair to Sheppard East, the LRT will serve some exciting shopping districts. For example, the orange building in the middle of this image will be served by two tram stops within a 250 metre radius, which will also provide good access to a clean water supply.

 

[Epi]

What I find funny is that if the LRT didn't extend all the way out there, people would be complaining:

Wow, so the LRT is only going to be 6km long? And then people are going to have to TRANSFER AGAIN to a bus out to Morningside??!

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The Zoo isn't much of a "node," being very seasonal and visited by less people in one year as Scarborough Town Centre is in about 3 weeks. Even getting to the Zoo by transit from within Scarborough is an absolute chore when you're dragging kids and will remain a chore. Hell, getting to the Science Centre by transit is a no-go for most people coming from downtown. Another problem is that there's absolutely nobody beyond this point - no houses, no jobs, no riders - so when the Zoo's closed or not in season the line will be literally empty. It'd be cheaper to offer subsidized taxi fare to all potential transit users to the Zoo from STC than build an LRT extension (the taxis would also be faster).

What I find funny is that if the LRT didn't extend all the way out there, people would be complaining:

Wow, so the LRT is only going to be 6km long? And then people are going to have to TRANSFER AGAIN to a bus out to Morningside??!

They really wouldn't. What they would complain about is that there should be one transfer - from the subway to the bus. The few riders on Sheppard way out in the east aren't riding to Don Mills in large or even moderate numbers, and even fewer will do so in the future if the RT is extended.

 

[bleeepbluuup]

The Zoo isn't much of a "node," being very seasonal and visited by less people in one year as Scarborough Town Centre is in about 3 weeks. Even getting to the Zoo by transit from within Scarborough is an absolute chore when you're dragging kids and will remain a chore. Hell, getting to the Science Centre by transit is a no-go for most people coming from downtown. Another problem is that there's absolutely nobody beyond this point - no houses, no jobs, no riders - so when the Zoo's closed or not in season the line will be literally empty. It'd be cheaper to offer subsidized taxi fare to all potential transit users to the Zoo from STC than build an LRT extension (the taxis would also be faster).

The Zoo is great in the cooler months. Less crowding, less stinky.

 

[Amphibius]

I think the main reason why it terminates at Meadowvale/Sheppard for now is due to the uncertainty of where it's heading next, either pigeonholed at the Zoo or east/southeast into Pickering. A nice fantasy would be for the Zoo monorail to reopen and extend south to meet with the line.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The Zoo is great in the cooler months. Less crowding, less stinky.

You'll have the whole LRT to yourself...

 

[nfitz]

The Zoo isn't much of a "node," being very seasonal and visited by less people in one year as Scarborough Town Centre is in about 3 weeks.

It's a huge node when it's operating - but not necessary when it isn't.

Even getting to the Zoo by transit from within Scarborough is an absolute chore when you're dragging kids and will remain a chore.

I've taken a half-dozen kids to the zoo before - it was a heck of a lot easier on transit, than coping with the paperwork and H&S precautions for putting them into a mini-bus or a couple of private vehicles. And with my own, transit is so much easier than driving, if it get's where I want to go.

Hell, getting to the Science Centre by transit is a no-go for most people coming from downtown.

Can't imagine why ... it's what, 10-15 minutes from Pape Station on a Don Mills Bus ... a bus that comes as frequently as a subway train.

Another problem is that there's absolutely nobody beyond this point - no houses, no jobs, no riders - so when the Zoo's closed or not in season the line will be literally empty.

It would be - I was looking at the zoo to provide additional ridership to a very empty area - rather than being a destination en-route. The question is how much would the single-stop extension cost?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

It's a huge node when it's operating - but not necessary when it isn't.

I've taken a half-dozen kids to the zoo before - it was a heck of a lot easier on transit, than coping with the paperwork and H&S precautions for putting them into a mini-bus or a couple of private vehicles. And with my own, transit is so much easier than driving, if it get's where I want to go.

Can't imagine why ... it's what, 10-15 minutes from Pape Station on a Don Mills Bus ... a bus that comes as frequently as a subway train.

It would be - I was looking at the zoo to provide additional ridership to a very empty area - rather than being a destination en-route. The question is how much would the single-stop extension cost?

Considering how very, very few people will use the line to get to the Zoo (the fact that more than zero people use transit to get there now changes nothing...more than zero isn't exactly a stellar endorsement), any amount spent on it is silly. Silly projects get greenlit faster, though. Even if 100% of Zoo goers used it, it'd still be questionable.

 

[nfitz]

Considering how very, very few people will use the line to get to the Zoo

Hang on, in a previous comment you estimated that it would be 6% of the STC usage ... which would be about 3,000 - not bad for a streetcar stop; and more than many subway stations.

And I've seen the Scarborough bus suddenly become standing room only when it stops at Sheppard on it's way to the Zoo.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Hang on, in a previous comment you estimated that it would be 6% of the STC usage ... which would be about 3,000 - not bad for a streetcar stop; and more than many subway stations.

And I've seen the Scarborough bus suddenly become standing room only when it stops at Sheppard on it's way to the Zoo.

No, I clearly didn't estimate that. People actually use transit to get to STC in large numbers.

Again, anecdotes that more than zero people use transit proves only that more than zero people use transit. These more than zero people can take the bus that already exists or, if they change the fare schemes, GO buses.

 

[nfitz]

No, I clearly didn't estimate that. People actually use transit to get to STC in large numbers.

You estimated that the Zoo was " visited by less people in one year as Scarborough Town Centre is in about 3 weeks". That would be about 6% of the STC ridership. With about 30,000 trips a day on the SRT ... and I'd guess another 10,000 a day by bus? That's 40,000 at STC ... 6% of which is 2,300 ... less than 3,000 I guess ... but still more than some subway stations.