The Future of Bombardier

[drum118]

Poor Andy has got to deal with BBD late deliveries for 300 MTA subway cars like he had to with TTC order. Only 32 on hand now, when 300 were to be on hand Jan 2017

How Can the M.T.A. Rescue the Subway When It Struggles to Deliver Basics?

 

[lenaitch]

It seems that there is still life in aircraft that Bombardier walked away from.

http://www.timescolonist.com/busine...rs-to-rebuild-firefighting-bombers-1.23294510

Those jobs used to be in Ontario.

 

[someMidTowner]

Apparently, the contract has been signed and Bombardier will be producing the new fleet of Walt Disney World monorails: https://wdwnt.com/2018/04/update-le...laims-disney-world-has-ordered-new-monorails/

 

[Isotack]

It seems that there is still life in aircraft that Bombardier walked away from.

http://www.timescolonist.com/busine...rs-to-rebuild-firefighting-bombers-1.23294510

Those jobs used to be in Ontario.

North Bay, 50 year old design. The C-Series engineering team said they built an insignificant... one plane per year.

 

[lenaitch]

North Bay, 50 year old design. The C-Series engineering team said they built an insignificant... one plane per year.

Yes, North Bay is in Ontario. It seems there is enough re-build business for Viking to hire 150. It sounds like a lot of the work will be to upgrade the CL-215 to turbine (CL-215T). I'm not sure there is another surface-skimming airframe with their capacity.

Heck, the C-130 Hercules dates back to 1956 and they are still the air lift backbone of most western air forces. Aircraft aren't like cars.

 

[Catenary]

North Bay, 50 year old design. The C-Series engineering team said they built an insignificant... one plane per year.

I believe their maximum capacity was 4 planes/year. If you drove past the hangar when the doors were open, there was often two planes in different states of assembly. Bombardier actually contracted the assembly work out to another company that staffed the facility.

The order book was empty when Bombardier sold the design off, they weren't building anything else anyways.

 

[lenaitch]

I believe their maximum capacity was 4 planes/year. If you drove past the hangar when the doors were open, there was often two planes in different states of assembly. Bombardier actually contracted the assembly work out to another company that staffed the facility.

The order book was empty when Bombardier sold the design off, they weren't building anything else anyways.

Fair point - BBD is a builder, not fleet maintainer.

 

[drum118]

Will help Quebec

Montreal transit agency gets green light to buy more Azur trains

 

[Amare]

The lengths to which Quebec will go to protect Bombardier is simply incredible. I'm curious what exactly this "special legislation" is.

 

[nephersir7]

The lengths to which Quebec will go to protect Bombardier is simply incredible. I'm curious what exactly this "special legislation" is

Here's the text of the bill:

Bill 186 AN ACT CONCERNING THE ACQUISITION OF ADDITIONAL CARS FOR THE MONTRÉAL SUBWAY THE PARLIAMENT OF QUÉBEC ENACTS AS FOLLOWS:

1. The [STM] must make an offer to the other parties bound by the contract entered into on 22 October 2010 under the Act respecting the acquisition of cars for the Montréal subway (2010, chapter 22) and approved by Order in Council 898-2010 dated 27 October 2010 (2010, G.O. 2, 4456, French only) to amend the contract in order to allow the [STM] to acquire additional subway cars equipped with rubber tires. The additional cars may be manufactured in accordance with specifications that differ from those initially set out in the contract so as to take into account, among other things, the [STM]'s needs, the cars’ upgrading and improvement, and technological innovations and developments.

2. The Minister of [Transport] may give directives to the [STM] concerning the amendments to be made to the contract. The directives are binding on the [STM], which must comply with them.

3. The contract must be amended by the parties no later than (30 days after the date of assent to this Act). The Minister of [Transport], may grant additional time for that purpose if the Minister considers it advisable. If the contract has not been amended by (30 days after the date of assent to this Act), the Government may, as of that date and, if applicable, even if the extension has not expired, amend the contract in the name of the [STM], on the terms the Government determines. The contract, as amended, is binding on the [STM].

4. The amendments made to the contract under the first paragraph of section 3 are binding only if they are approved by the Government.

5. No legal action may be brought against the [STM] or the Attorney General for any act performed under this Act.

According to Le Journal de Montréal: (translation)

By the end of the month, Bombardier Transportation will send a Notice of Collective Termination to the Ministry of Labor stating that 200 to 250 employees will be laid off from August to December.

Layoffs will coincide with the latest deliveries of the 468 Azur metro cars ordered to the Bombardier-Alstom consortium in 2010.
---
In February, Bombardier lost the lucrative contract of the Réseau Express Métropolitain (REM) to Alstom.

However, the new subway car order will come too late to prevent layoffs. Bombardier and Alstom will need several months after the official signature to re-launch their supply and production chains.

"When there is a contract signed, it will transform the layoffs into temporary layoffs," says Éric Prud'homme, spokesman for Bombardier Transportation. The duration of the work stoppage is not yet known.

The Couillard government has just introduced a bill to extend this contract and thus maintain the level of activity at the La Pocatière and Alstom plants in Sorel-Tracy.
---
Everything indicates are that only a little over a third of the 423 MR-73 cars will be replaced. To limit its expenses, the STM does not want to build new garages. Its existing facilities can accommodate 153 Azur cars (17 trains) more than the 468 it will have in December.

For its part, Bombardier warns that it will take a minimum order of 150 cars to revive production efficiently and have a significant impact on jobs in La Pocatière.

"Below 150 cars, it would be difficult to bridge" with the next contract that the plant will get, said Prud'homme. The company has great hopes for the Quebec City LRT and other projects in North America.
---
The price of new cars will certainly be higher than that of $ 2.5 million per unit of the 2010 contract. The design costs were amortized by the first order, but we must add inflation and especially the impact of the exchange rate. Several suppliers are American and the Canadian dollar has tumbled 30% against the greenback since 2010.

At $ 3 million per car, the value of the order would reach $ 459 million.

"Of course, Bombardier's goal is to stay as competitive as possible, not to take advantage of the situation, quite the opposite," assured Éric Prud'homme. Our goal is for Quebec to be a winner. "

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/05/18/des-mises-a-pied-malgre-le-contrat

 

[Amare]

^I dont think I've ever seen a piece of legislation like that before. Quebec is really in a league of their own when it comes to protectionism.

 

[steveintoronto]

^Well...I agree with every point made in preceding posts, save that *Ontario* has done and can continue to do same! "UTDC" and "TTC buy untendered from Thunder Bay" ring any bells?

Make no mistake, I'm no more for these kinds of deals than I am for Milk Marketing Boards, but I do believe in no Marketing Boards *either side* of the trading field. If the US erects "Buy American" then we have to respond in kind.

All of that being said, BBD has taken a pummeling lately, and deserves it. Even the Caisse, which owns 30% of the Transportation Division, awarded the REM contract to...well, I'll just post the Google goggle:
CDPQ Infra awards contracts for Montreal REM
www.railjournal.com/index.php/.../cdpq-infra-awards-contracts-for-montreal-rem.htm...
Feb 8, 2018 - CDPQ Infra awards contracts for Montreal REM ... The announcement that Alstom won the RSSOM contract, which is worth more than $C 1bn ...

"Sole Source Contract"?



OCTOBER 18, 2013
Considering a sole-source contract? Here are some sound management practices
https://canadiangovernmentexecutive...act-here-are-some-sound-management-practices/

The subject is a bit more nuanced than it first appears.

 

[dowlingm]

@steveintoronto show me where in this decade Ontario has strongarmed the provincial public pension plans into funding Toronto transit, or published a bill funding the extension of the proprietary SRT.

 

[steveintoronto]

@steveintoronto show me where in this decade Ontario has strongarmed the provincial public pension plans into funding Toronto transit, or published a bill funding the extension of the proprietary SRT.

Can you rephrase this or add more parameters? It's missing context to reference. You qualify your query by stating "this decade", and I'm clearly on record of (gist) "agreeing with all the claims above", but here's retrospect, and this is still ongoing to varying degrees:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/council/cc060627/enq001.pdf

 

[nephersir7]

Will help Quebec

Montreal transit agency gets green light to buy more Azur trains

Now confirmed to be 153 cars / 17 trains, because that's the largest amount of extra Azur trains that the STM's existing maintenance facilities can handle.

Price will be negotiated later, but is estimated at 350 millions or more

That means 200 Bombardier jobs maintained for 18 more months in La Pocatière

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1103901/metro-montreal-stm-153-wagons-trains-azur-ligne-verte

The article doesn't mention the job implications for the Alstom plant in Sorel, which still had somewhere around 100 employees working on the Azur train project.

Interestingly, before this new contract was arranged, Alstom had already announced last month that 80 jobs would be maintained in Sorel after the Azur contract ended in november 2018, because they're producing some of the Santiago metro bogies and some work on the Ottawa/Metrolinx LRV contracts.