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SmartTrack (Proposed)

raptor said:
The press release mentioned trips of 10km-20km will cost $3-$6
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My daily ride between centennial and Kennedy Station is about 20km, and costs me $5.73 one way with Presto. So does not make a difference for me.
 
micheal_can said:
If the TTC did the same thing as those other transit agencies would do, then it might be a positive thing. Just imagine hopping a TTC bus to the nearest GO station to be whisked away to a GO station closer to your destination.

Sounds - like - SmartTrack - doesn't - it?
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Absolutely, the systems should be better integrated. I'm supportive of a uniform cofare for transfers between GO and municipal lines.

Functionally, using GO as a super-subway is a good plan. However, it needs to be priced based on value derived. And, we can't morph GO into a subway without addressing the loss of value as a regional transportation mode.

- Paul
 
TheTigerMaster said:
GO Transit fares being reduced to $3 in City of Toronto in early 2019

Big news.
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I knew true 416 same-fare integration would eventually happen by about 2025....things were clearly headed in that eventuality.

Peobably letting inflation slowly raise TTC fares closer to unraised GO fares.

But this is a surprise - 2019!
That is two thirds a decade ahead of what I thought.
Though, no free transfers (yet) between GO and TTC.

rumorsI have heard they wanted to announce 15-min diesel Lakeshore to also happen, but CN dispatching issue (smallspy mentioned), and I bet they want new Oakville train control office needs to open first. Based on this, putting two and two, I'll go out on a limb and predict that overloaded Lakeshore will lead to an announcement of 15min Lakeshore diesel service shortly after, let's say 2020 or 2021.

Now, how will they maintain that while also doing electrification construction - that is the question...
 
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crs1026 said:
Absolutely, the systems should be better integrated. I'm supportive of a uniform cofare for transfers between GO and municipal lines.

Functionally, using GO as a super-subway is a good plan. However, it needs to be priced based on value derived. And, we can't morph GO into a subway without addressing the loss of value as a regional transportation mode.

- Paul
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Using the existing stations only, how would you loose value?
 
micheal_can said:
Hopefully by that time there is an Express track put in place.
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That would be optimal, yes. However, the new fare structure is promised for 2019, ST is promised for ‘soon’, and the express track is just an idea, not even intended for RER’s 2024-2025 delivery.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
That would be optimal, yes. However, the new fare structure is promised for 2019, ST is promised for ‘soon’, and the express track is just an idea, not even intended for RER’s 2024-2025 delivery.

- Paul
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When is the timeline for all those new stations?

Sounds like around 2024/5
 
mdrejhon said:
I knew true 416 same-fare integration would eventually happen by about 2025....things were clearly headed in that eventuality.

Peobably letting inflation slowly raise TTC fares closer to unraised GO fares.

But this is a surprise - 2019!
That is two thirds a decade ahead of what I thought.
Though, no free transfers (yet) between GO and TTC.

rumorsI have heard they wanted to announce 15-min diesel Lakeshore to also happen, but CN dispatching issue (smallspy mentioned), and I bet they want new Oakville train control office needs to open first. Based on this, putting two and two, I'll go out on a limb and predict that overloaded Lakeshore will lead to an announcement of 15min Lakeshore diesel service shortly after, let's say 2020 or 2021.

Now, how will they maintain that while also doing electrification construction - that is the question...
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Honestly, I'd rather have 30 min all-day two-way express trains on Lakeshore than 15 min local trains. You'd basically be running two independent lines then (4 if you keep splitting LSE & LSW):
  • Express: Aldershot-Burlington-Appleby-Bronte-Oakville-Clarkson-Union-Pickering-Ajax-Whitby-Oshawa
  • Local: Clarkson-Port Credit-Long Branch-Mimico-Exhibition-Union-Danforth-Scarborough-Guildwood-Rouge Hill-Pickering
This way, you can have the $3 Toronto fare which would pretty much only apply to the Local train, so the 905 passengers wouldn't really be affected (except for those bound for Misssissauga). You could also do the Toronto infill stations without impacting the outer reaches of the lines too much.

With this you'd still be running trains ~every 15 mins, they would just be on two distinct routes.
 
^why not both? by the sounds of it Metrolinx is starting to mix more of that type of service into their planning. They originally contemplated it in their Lakeshore West plans, but dropped it. But with SmartTrack now, they seem to be reconsidering "final" service plans, and it seems to be making a comeback.

I do like the all day express train service idea, it would save a lot of travel time, but 15 minute service all day would also make schedules much more flexible. It's a trade off of flexibility and travel times.

That said, I agree that I think I would prefer express trains. They shave about 13 minutes off a Lakeshore west trip.. (Aldershot to Union in 57 minutes instead of an hour and 10) that is better than the average wait time improvement of 7.5 minutes that 15 minute service would provide. Off peak travel times are also where it is important to be quicker, since vehicle travel speeds are much higher.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
^why not both? by the sounds of it Metrolinx is starting to mix more of that type of service into their planning. They originally contemplated it in their Lakeshore West plans, but dropped it. But with SmartTrack now, they seem to be reconsidering "final" service plans, and it seems to be making a comeback.

I do like the all day express train service idea, it would save a lot of travel time, but 15 minute service all day would also make schedules much more flexible. It's a trade off of flexibility and travel times.

That said, I agree that I think I would prefer express trains. They shave about 13 minutes off a Lakeshore west trip.. (Aldershot to Union in 57 minutes instead of an hour and 10) that is better than the average wait time improvement of 7.5 minutes that 15 minute service would provide. Off peak travel times are also where it is important to be quicker, since vehicle travel speeds are much higher.
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If they could do Express/Local and even 20 minute frequencies, I'd be a happy camper. But yes, if it came down to "we can do either 15 minute local service or 30 min express+local service", I'd take the 30 express+local.

With SmartTrack, the Kitchener and Stouffville lines will basically be getting that express+local treatment anyway. Might as well extend that same thought process to Lakeshore, even if it isn't included under the "SmartTrack" banner (or maybe it does get rolled into that, who knows).
 
A large package on ST is heading to Toronto's Executive Committee on April 17th.

Staff reports covering funding, station details, terms and conditions of ML and City participation, etc etc are on line here.

- Paul
 
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