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SmartTrack (Proposed)

Big news indeed.

At $3 between Union and Dundas West the Union Pearson Express becomes a mini Relief Line west.
 
hw621 said:
Condition: If the Liberals is elected in June...

Does anyone know what fares is for GO trips over 10KM outside of Toronto? Is it going to come down proportionately as well?
Click to expand...

What would be really nice if within a Region the fare was the same. I bet it would see a major jump in ridership. It might even see a reduction on car usage.
 
A few examples of today's fares, cash fare without Presto discount

Long Branch to Rouge Hill - $9.35
Kipling to Kennedy - $8.45
Long Branch to Agincourt - $8.45
Etobicoke North to Agincourt - $7.05

A $3 fare is a pretty deep discount for those trips. Of course, since 90% of the added ridership will be headed downtown, these numbers may be a bit extreme. Most fares from Toronto stations to Union are only $5.xx.

I don't think the premium for GO is unreasonable....if all the new stations are added, the service will certainly serve Toronto well, but hopefully it remains a better-than-subway rider experience.

Putting extra riders on GO before it can be upgraded is just passing the problem elsewhere and not helping market regional GO. Whoever backs this had better be able to face the demands from the 905 for express service, because plenty of GO trains are already standing room before they hit the Toronto boundary. That extra ridership will not help things. Add in the cost of triple tracking to enable express service to Barrie and Stouffville to the fare-subsidy cost, because putting extra riders on GO inside the 416 will make express runs necessary to manage the ridership (and maybe they are a good idea anyways).

FWIW, I just rode Rutherford to Long Branch. The Aurora train (well, it's Roadswitcher Thursday, so it was the Maple train, actually) pulled in to Union at 13:36 on platform 6 with the 13:43 LSW on platform 5.... step off, step on transfer....easy peasy. That Kipling to Kennedy ride sure appeals. So this may well be the start of something attractive. But....This whole thing has a "squirm" feel to it. It's a bit of a Hail Mary play IMHO. Anything that promises "relief" as a way of avoiding or deferring the Relief Line is not prudent. Let's just get the Relief Line built and not talk about improved GO as a potential "relief" to Lines 1/2, even if it does help with that. Nobody should let politicians off the hook for the relief line, it's paramount.

I'm not happy with either Wynne or Ford developing a platform where one is pro-416 and the other is pro-905. That kind of divisiveness won't serve us well, no matter who wins. So a harmonised GO fare structure is preferable to a two-tier 416 vs Regional fare structure.

- Paul
 
Last edited:
hw621 said:
Condition: If the Liberals is elected in June...

Does anyone know what fares is for GO trips over 10KM outside of Toronto? Is it going to come down proportionately as well?
Click to expand...

I don't know about trips over 10km, but trips under 10km outside Toronto will be the same $3 price.
 
crs1026 said:
A few examples of today's fares, cash fare without Presto discount

Long Branch to Rouge Hill - $9.35
Kipling to Kennedy - $8.45
Long Branch to Agincourt - $8.45
Etobicoke North to Agincourt - $7.05

A $3 fare is a pretty deep discount for those trips. Of course, since 90% of the added ridership will be headed downtown, these numbers may be a bit extreme. Most fares from Toronto stations to Union are only $5.xx.

I don't think the premium for GO is unreasonable....if all the new stations are added, the service will certainly serve Toronto well, but hopefully it remains a better-than-subway rider experience.

Putting extra riders on GO before it can be upgraded is just passing the problem elsewhere and not helping market regional GO. Whoever backs this had better be able to face the demands from the 905 for express service, because plenty of GO trains are already standing room before they hit the Toronto boundary. That extra ridership will not help things. Add in the cost of triple tracking to enable express service to Barrie and Stouffville to the fare-subsidy cost, because putting extra riders on GO inside the 416 will make express runs necessary to manage the ridership (and maybe they are a good idea anyways).

FWIW, I just rode Rutherford to Long Branch. The Aurora train (well, it's Roadswitcher Thursday, so it was the Maple train, actually) pulled in to Union at 13:36 on platform 6 with the 13:43 LSW on platform 5.... step off, step on transfer....easy peasy. That Kipling to Kennedy ride sure appeals. So this may well be the start of something attractive. But....This whole thing has a "squirm" feel to it. It's a bit of a Hail Mary play IMHO. Anything that promises "relief" as a way of avoiding or deferring the Relief Line is not prudent. Let's just get the Relief Line built and not talk about improved GO as a potential "relief" to Lines 1/2, even if it does help with that. Nobody should let politicians off the hook for the relief line, it's paramount.

I'm not happy with either Wynne or Ford developing a platform where one is pro-416 and the other is pro-905. That kind of divisiveness won't serve us well, no matter who wins. So a harmonised GO fare structure is preferable to a two-tier 416 vs Regional fare structure.

- Paul
Click to expand...

What about the fare from the furthest Toronto station to Union?
 
crs1026 said:
Rouge Hill - $7.25

Pickering GO to Union is $8.60. It's not an unreasonable drive from Pickering (or beyond) to Rouge Hill. If the Rouge Hill fare drops to $3, guess what will happen.

Do we want that?

- Paul
Click to expand...

People might take GO bus to those stations within Toronto?
Many of those stations don't have much parking.
 
micheal_can said:
People might take GO bus to those stations within Toronto?
Many of those stations don't have much parking.
Click to expand...

I sure would expect Durham Transit to propose some new routes, yes.

GO being GO, I would bet money that they would suddenly announce new parking garage projects.

Whether it's GO or Durham or whoever, running more buses to the 416 to let people enjoy a subsidised fare (which is an artificial price, remember) , taking them off the train they ride today, makes absolutely no sense.

There is also the problem that GO station placements within the 416, while they will attract some riders, are not optimal to relieve the TTC transit flows. So we need the enhanced city transit anyways. That's why I'm so adamant about not letting anyone get seduced by a "relief" benefit from lower GO fares. Yes, that benefit will emerge, but in our political environment it will erode what's needed in transit investment within the 416.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I sure would expect Durham Transit to propose some new routes, yes.

GO being GO, I would bet money that they would suddenly announce new parking garage projects.

Whether it's GO or Durham or whoever, running more buses to the 416 to let people enjoy a subsidised fare (which is an artificial price, remember) , taking them off the train they ride today, makes absolutely no sense.

There is also the problem that GO station placements within the 416, while they will attract some riders, are not optimal to relieve the TTC transit flows. So we need the enhanced city transit anyways. That's why I'm so adamant about not letting anyone get seduced by a "relief" benefit from lower GO fares. Yes, that benefit will emerge, but in our political environment it will erode what's needed in transit investment within the 416.

- Paul
Click to expand...

If the TTC did the same thing as those other transit agencies would do, then it might be a positive thing. Just imagine hopping a TTC bus to the nearest GO station to be whisked away to a GO station closer to your destination.

Sounds - like - SmartTrack - doesn't - it?
 
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