Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
I do not think you have any more time to save the subway along Sheppard East
|
|
|
saveoursubways (SOS)
- Thread starter kEiThZ
- Start date
- Status
Ansem
Banned
We knew that stopping Sheppard LRT would be impossible. We want the subway to Agincourt then south to STC. East of Agincourt will be LRT due to early construction.
*******************
I had an idea for Sheppard East LRT
Since stopping the construction on the east portion and at Agincourt is impossible at this point, how about merging Malvern LRT and SELRT
-Kennedy Station to Kingston rd
-Kingston Rd to Morningside
-Morningside to Malvern Centre via Sheppard East
-From Malvern,South to Sheppard East
-Go west on Sheppard East to Agincourt.
Any thought?
Dan416
Senior Member
Ye of little faith! Remember a municipal election is coming...
drum118
Superstar
And!!!................................
Metrolinx is calling the shots now since they are paying for it.
Unless you and the new council can come up with 100% funding to cover the construction cost of a subway, not going to happen.
At the same time, you better ask the residents of Toronto if they are welling to pay the extra cost to built this subway vs. LRT as well the lost funding for the LRT. Expect to hear ""NO""
Ummm... Have you read the earlier posts? We have stated many times that Phase 1 of our plan is cost-neutral with TC. We are not asking for ANY extra funds right away, merely for funds to be reallocated.
For the $15B we would be spending on TC, we can get: Sheppard subway from Downsview to STC, B-D East extension to STC, B-D West extension to Sherway, Eglinton Subway from the Science Centre to Pearson, and the DRL (which is being funded separately from TC, and not included in that total).
Torontovibe
Senior Member
If we could at least get the DRL and Eginton subways, that would be wonderful. I'm all for more subways.
Dan416
Senior Member
I think most people in real life are all for more subways. It's only a minority of a minority that aren't. I.e. a very vocal 30% or so on this board who aren't. But this board isn't representative of the general population. If you asked the general population, I think the bias would be even more heavily toward subways.
junctionist
Senior Member
The problem is that there hasn't been much discussion among the general public about transit expansion. Without the kinds of discussions which happen here among those in the media and average people, public opinion is very basic and can swing from supportive positions of subway expansion to skepticism.
That's very true. But I think the TTC has had a much harder sell selling TC than we would have selling Move Toronto. People can make the direct correlation between the capacity issues on the subways now, and that having more subways will help with that. People want more of what they know works, and people in Toronto know subways work. We don't have to sell subways as a mode, we just have to sell why our plan is better than TC.
Ansem
Banned
sos members, go to our social group threads and you will see that I have send an invitation for our 1st meeting in January. Gweed and I said yes and we`re waiting for the other members to answer. We agreed to meet at a library at Yonge-Bloor...
Keithz won`t make it but we offered video conference or chat live with him during the meeting.
I said we should finalize our plan and prepare a powerpoint presentation and divide the tasks....
Keithz won`t make it but we offered video conference or chat live with him during the meeting.
I said we should finalize our plan and prepare a powerpoint presentation and divide the tasks....
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Interesting how you did not phone Councillor Del Grande's office weeks ago and share your frustration with his that the Sheppard Subway will not be extended. Councillor Del Grande could have mentioned your group and your intentions when interviewed by Inside Toronto. Then, other media outlets, residents, business owners, other Scarborough Councillors, and even the TTC could have caught wind of your intentions as well.
You missed a golden opportunity!
You missed a golden opportunity!
Last edited:
I didn't even know about this... If someone would have mentioned it, I would have been happy to have sent them a message.
wyliepoon
Senior Member
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2009/12/31/is-the-ttc-worth-3-a-fare.aspx
Is the TTC worth $3 a fare?
Posted: December 31, 2009, 6:30 AM by Rob Roberts
Kuitenbrouwer
Happy New Year from the Toronto Transit Commission: Please pay up.
On Sunday, TTC cash fares go up 25¢, or 9%, to $3, and a Metropass jumps from $109 to $121, a 10% increase.
These are hefty hikes. Is the TTC worth the extra money? The short answer is no. I visited New York over Christmas, where the subway costs $2.25 (US), and takes you all over town, 24 hours a day. By comparison, we are getting hosed.
Transit users here probably wouldn’t begrudge the TTC a steep fare hike if we saw improvements. But six years after David Miller won re-election as the “transit mayor,” turning down the mayor’s traditional seat on the Police Services Board to take a seat on the TTC, in what way is the transit system better?
The other night, after the city hall press gallery’s Christmas party at the Hard Rock Café, I waited at midnight for the 505 Dundas streetcar westbound with Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone and John Barber of The Globe and Mail. Mr. Barber flagged a cab. That left two of us. Mr. Pantalone told me he is running for mayor. We waited some more.
“People used to love and respect the TTC,” said Mr. Pantalone. “What happened?”
“Back then,” I replied, “the TTC used to show up on a regular basis.”
In fairness, the streetcar soon rumbled up, and we got home safe. And isn’t it nice to have a deputy mayor who takes transit after midnight?
Still, we just don’t have the transit system we once did. Compared with 1980, the year Mr. Pantalone first won election to City Council, today’s TTC is dirtier, more crowded and less reliable. Major improvement appears a long distance away.
“You’re packed in like a sardine and you’re paying more for all of this,” says Patricia Sinclair, who lives on Finch Avenue East in Scarborough and does not drive. Ms. Sinclair has launched a group called “Save our Sheppard” to protest the new streetcar right-of-way on Sheppard Avenue East, the first bit of the Transit City plan.
“We want them to go back to their original plan for a subway on Sheppard East,” she says. “The Spadina [light rail] line goes 12 km an hour. Is that rapid transit? We’re being hoodwinked.”
There is some good news for transit users in Toronto. Yesterday, I tested the new streetcar right-of-way on St. Clair Avenue West, from Dufferin Street to Yonge Street. The streetcar came promptly, filled quickly, and ran smoothly.
In another spot of good news, university students -- who apparently lobbied the TTC pretty hard -- will see the price of their transit pass actually drop next year, from $109 right now to $99 in September, 2010.
But overall, the TTC predicts that the fare hike will discourage use. A record 473 million people will have ridden the TTC by midnight tonight (up from 467 million in 2008). Once the fare goes up, in 2010 just 462 million people will ride the Rocket, the TTC estimates. The fare hike will generate $36-million. The TTC also says its costs will rise 6% in 2010, but it will provide no new service.
Am I the only guy who finds it wacky that, even as our mayor professes to fight global warming, we expect transit use to drop?
Over the long term, the TTC predicts that subway and light rail expansion (on Sheppard, Finch and Eglinton avenues, Jane St. and Don Mills Road) will bring in an additional 175 million riders by 2021. If this does come to pass, Mr. Miller will indeed look like a hero. But I would like a better transit system before then.
The other day Councillor Karen Stintz (Eglinton-Lawrence) described being stuck on the Yonge train in a tunnel southbound for 20 minutes, with no one explaining the delay. She decided then to run again for council, because, “we have to fix this.”
Transit users are looking forward to very specific proposals from all the mayoral candidates as to how they will improve public transit within their term of office.
Is the TTC worth $3 a fare?
Posted: December 31, 2009, 6:30 AM by Rob Roberts
Kuitenbrouwer
Happy New Year from the Toronto Transit Commission: Please pay up.
On Sunday, TTC cash fares go up 25¢, or 9%, to $3, and a Metropass jumps from $109 to $121, a 10% increase.
These are hefty hikes. Is the TTC worth the extra money? The short answer is no. I visited New York over Christmas, where the subway costs $2.25 (US), and takes you all over town, 24 hours a day. By comparison, we are getting hosed.
Transit users here probably wouldn’t begrudge the TTC a steep fare hike if we saw improvements. But six years after David Miller won re-election as the “transit mayor,” turning down the mayor’s traditional seat on the Police Services Board to take a seat on the TTC, in what way is the transit system better?
The other night, after the city hall press gallery’s Christmas party at the Hard Rock Café, I waited at midnight for the 505 Dundas streetcar westbound with Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone and John Barber of The Globe and Mail. Mr. Barber flagged a cab. That left two of us. Mr. Pantalone told me he is running for mayor. We waited some more.
“People used to love and respect the TTC,” said Mr. Pantalone. “What happened?”
“Back then,” I replied, “the TTC used to show up on a regular basis.”
In fairness, the streetcar soon rumbled up, and we got home safe. And isn’t it nice to have a deputy mayor who takes transit after midnight?
Still, we just don’t have the transit system we once did. Compared with 1980, the year Mr. Pantalone first won election to City Council, today’s TTC is dirtier, more crowded and less reliable. Major improvement appears a long distance away.
“You’re packed in like a sardine and you’re paying more for all of this,” says Patricia Sinclair, who lives on Finch Avenue East in Scarborough and does not drive. Ms. Sinclair has launched a group called “Save our Sheppard” to protest the new streetcar right-of-way on Sheppard Avenue East, the first bit of the Transit City plan.
“We want them to go back to their original plan for a subway on Sheppard East,” she says. “The Spadina [light rail] line goes 12 km an hour. Is that rapid transit? We’re being hoodwinked.”
There is some good news for transit users in Toronto. Yesterday, I tested the new streetcar right-of-way on St. Clair Avenue West, from Dufferin Street to Yonge Street. The streetcar came promptly, filled quickly, and ran smoothly.
In another spot of good news, university students -- who apparently lobbied the TTC pretty hard -- will see the price of their transit pass actually drop next year, from $109 right now to $99 in September, 2010.
But overall, the TTC predicts that the fare hike will discourage use. A record 473 million people will have ridden the TTC by midnight tonight (up from 467 million in 2008). Once the fare goes up, in 2010 just 462 million people will ride the Rocket, the TTC estimates. The fare hike will generate $36-million. The TTC also says its costs will rise 6% in 2010, but it will provide no new service.
Am I the only guy who finds it wacky that, even as our mayor professes to fight global warming, we expect transit use to drop?
Over the long term, the TTC predicts that subway and light rail expansion (on Sheppard, Finch and Eglinton avenues, Jane St. and Don Mills Road) will bring in an additional 175 million riders by 2021. If this does come to pass, Mr. Miller will indeed look like a hero. But I would like a better transit system before then.
The other day Councillor Karen Stintz (Eglinton-Lawrence) described being stuck on the Yonge train in a tunnel southbound for 20 minutes, with no one explaining the delay. She decided then to run again for council, because, “we have to fix this.”
Transit users are looking forward to very specific proposals from all the mayoral candidates as to how they will improve public transit within their term of office.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/local/article/160804--dream-of-scarborough-subway-truly-dead
Dream of Scarborough subway truly dead
Inside Toronto: Nov 6, 2009
By: Mike Adler
This may be the moment when the dream of a Scarborough subway finally dies.
The Sheppard East Light-Rail Transit line, is expected to break ground in a few weeks, the first part of a city-wide light-rail network plan Scarborough councillors have accepted.
Those councillors concede whatever happens with the obsolete Scarborough Rapid Transit line from Kennedy to McCowan, it will stay mostly on the surface.
And that on Sheppard East, the foreseeable future is light rail.
But there are still some people - in Agincourt, in West Hill - confronted with a planned or proposed LRT in their neighbourhoods, who say a subway is what they actually deserve.
"Scarborough is being sold short," Patricia Sinclair, part of a group calling itself Save Our Sheppard, declared this week. "None of the politicians are standing up for us."
Despite everything stacked against a success - the environmental study already approved, funding given, contracts signed, work begun - Sinclair argued residents and business owners can stop the Sheppard East project if they object loudly enough.
More than that, they believe a Sheppard Subway extension into Scarborough Town Centre is something they can have instead.
"We have always been the priority for subways," said Sinclair, who will try to make these views known at a Scarborough Community Council meeting Tuesday.
The group circulates the words of K. Alan Fenton, who alleges the city's LRT plan is an expensive mistake, rooted in "the anti-automobile ideology of the activist left," because light-rail may at some points leave less room for cars.
The TTC says ridership on Sheppard East two decades from now, even if double what is projected, is far short of what would justify a subway or pay to keep it running, but Sinclair counters the commission is saying whatever serves its purposes.
"They feed us garbage because they're only backing up their version of what they want to do."
TTC Chairperson Adam Giambrone said different parts of the city fought each other for years to get the next subway, and failed to get anything.
"We'd all like to see subways," he said, but they cost five to six times what an LRT route does - which is unaffordable for the city - and would take twice as long to build.
Now that work on Sheppard East has started, the question is irrelevant, Giambrone suggested. "The train, so to speak, has left the station."
Scarborough-Rouge River Councillor Chin Lee, who represents residents along part of the route, agreed the city and the province aren't going to spring for a subway.
"The LRT is not as good as a subway, I agree, but it's also much cheaper," he said. "A lot more people are looking forward to it than are opposing it."
Lee also said he sees no "war on the car" being directed from downtown.
"If we want to fight for the subway it will take a good 30, 40 years. People have to be realistic," he added.
Dream of Scarborough subway truly dead
Inside Toronto: Nov 6, 2009
By: Mike Adler
This may be the moment when the dream of a Scarborough subway finally dies.
The Sheppard East Light-Rail Transit line, is expected to break ground in a few weeks, the first part of a city-wide light-rail network plan Scarborough councillors have accepted.
Those councillors concede whatever happens with the obsolete Scarborough Rapid Transit line from Kennedy to McCowan, it will stay mostly on the surface.
And that on Sheppard East, the foreseeable future is light rail.
But there are still some people - in Agincourt, in West Hill - confronted with a planned or proposed LRT in their neighbourhoods, who say a subway is what they actually deserve.
"Scarborough is being sold short," Patricia Sinclair, part of a group calling itself Save Our Sheppard, declared this week. "None of the politicians are standing up for us."
Despite everything stacked against a success - the environmental study already approved, funding given, contracts signed, work begun - Sinclair argued residents and business owners can stop the Sheppard East project if they object loudly enough.
More than that, they believe a Sheppard Subway extension into Scarborough Town Centre is something they can have instead.
"We have always been the priority for subways," said Sinclair, who will try to make these views known at a Scarborough Community Council meeting Tuesday.
The group circulates the words of K. Alan Fenton, who alleges the city's LRT plan is an expensive mistake, rooted in "the anti-automobile ideology of the activist left," because light-rail may at some points leave less room for cars.
The TTC says ridership on Sheppard East two decades from now, even if double what is projected, is far short of what would justify a subway or pay to keep it running, but Sinclair counters the commission is saying whatever serves its purposes.
"They feed us garbage because they're only backing up their version of what they want to do."
TTC Chairperson Adam Giambrone said different parts of the city fought each other for years to get the next subway, and failed to get anything.
"We'd all like to see subways," he said, but they cost five to six times what an LRT route does - which is unaffordable for the city - and would take twice as long to build.
Now that work on Sheppard East has started, the question is irrelevant, Giambrone suggested. "The train, so to speak, has left the station."
Scarborough-Rouge River Councillor Chin Lee, who represents residents along part of the route, agreed the city and the province aren't going to spring for a subway.
"The LRT is not as good as a subway, I agree, but it's also much cheaper," he said. "A lot more people are looking forward to it than are opposing it."
Lee also said he sees no "war on the car" being directed from downtown.
"If we want to fight for the subway it will take a good 30, 40 years. People have to be realistic," he added.
Last edited:
Ansem
Banned
- Status