kEiThZ
Superstar
Please keep the real world timeline in mond. The world is marching on while we're debating the map.
No, the O'Connor station is at O'Connor. If a stop was at Cosburn, as there must be, it'd be called Cosburn. If you're gonna push a plan based on a map and the map has a whole bunch of random station and alignment choices, that's all anyone is going to notice.
Sheppard needs to run through the CN/CP interchange, which means turning off Sheppard at Kennedy. Having 3 GO/subway interchanges within a kilometre of each other instead of having all 3 lines connect in one place makes zero sense. You can't put GO stations that close together. There's a few stores at Glen Watford...that's it. The Midland bus would either run to the CN/CP station or to one along Progress, which could be closer to Brimley to serve an area slated for massive developments. The original alignment to STC is also shorter. There's no reason to change it.
There are 2 stops within 200m of Cosburn (O'Connor and Mortimer). I'd say that's pretty decent coverage. Why would you want 1 stop at Cosburn (which neglets anything north of O'Connor and leaves a substantial gap between Cosburn and Danforth)? 200m isn't far to walk at all.
And as for the CN/CP interchange at Sheppard... it does run through there. Almost every to-scale map I've posted since we started this thing has had it running through there. The TTC-style maps I've posted aren't meant to have their alignments examined religiously. But yeah, I looked through all the to-scale versions of the maps, and every Scarborough map from v3 onwards (posted nearly a month ago), and every complete version to-scale map has had the Sheppard line passing directly through the CN/CP interchange.
Stations need to go where the people are. The people are at Cosburn. The bus on O'Connor can take the few people there *to* Cosburn, or to Broadview as happens now. If you have an area with a few hundred people and another area with a few thousand people, you make the few hundred people walk farther, not the few thousand.
Examining them religiously has nothing to do with it. Why go to the trouble of making one to suggest why a Sheppard subway extension is better than the LRT and not even put a station at Allanford/Kennedy? Why change the original Sheppard extension plan at all? If stations and alignments don't matter or are subject to change based on every single comment, don't make a map.
I think you're being a little harsh. The majority of people aren't going to dissect every single station like UT members do. They'll see Sheppard extended to Downsview and STC. That's what matters. Not whether it stops at O'Connor or Cosburn (to me I couldn't care less either way).
Besides scarberian, if you wanted to have your say in stop locations, you should have joined the group, which we already invited you to over a month ago when we were drawing up our plans. By forfeiting the invitation, you forfeit the right to complain about our maps which we debated endlessly already.
I want to see some sort of document produced by SOS no later than Dec 22, 2009
Stations need to go where the people are. The people are at Cosburn. The bus on O'Connor can take the few people there *to* Cosburn, or to Broadview as happens now. If you have an area with a few hundred people and another area with a few thousand people, you make the few hundred people walk farther, not the few thousand.
Examining them religiously has nothing to do with it. Why go to the trouble of making one to suggest why a Sheppard subway extension is better than the LRT and not even put a station at Allanford/Kennedy? Why change the original Sheppard extension plan at all? If stations and alignments don't matter or are subject to change based on every single comment, don't make a map.
The majority of people that actually have the power to change anything won't be swayed by a 'subways are awesome' argument. They need something a bit more concrete. Reasons why. "To connect the dots" might have worked if the city wasn't already convinced that the dots should be connected with LRT lines. Going to STC is less important than serving areas on the way to STC. With the DRL, people are/were pushing for more than a just the bare minimum express link necessary to avoid rebuilding Yonge & Bloor station...they're suggesting an extensive study be undertaken, one that considers the needs of downtown neighbourhoods, the impact on routes like the King streetcar, etc. The DRL, though, would be a new project, not something that replaces an existing or planned project.
If questions like stations and alignments were subject to "endless debate" and they still came through the process with random elements cobbled together by 'the consensus,' well, that's not the most constructive way to generate a workable vision. A map means doing this thing and not that thing, in this place and not that place. Why change the original plan for the Sheppard extension? Just to show you've thought it through? How can you even build community support if the lines skip entire communities? Allanford/Kennedy and Cosburn would be two of the busiest stations on their lines! That's all anyone from these areas will see on the map - what am I getting, how does it help me, how does it affect me.
It's not my fantasy map. You can either take simple common sense advice or leave it. If SOS is going to fight for a mega-billion dollar transit plan covering the whole city instead of, say, just extending the Danforth line to STC, the whole plan needs to make sense.
Um, ok? Thanks for your input though.
That concept seems reaonable. The station box may be bit long. It looks to be about 200-metres ... which may be a shade long.They're needed. Anyway to settle this debate, I made a map on the fly of where the "O'Connor" stop proximately could fit in.
While I generally have difficulty believing that changes can be made at this point, and particularly ones that will be so expensive, why December 22? What happens on the 23rd? Does the plan turn back into a pumpkin?Well if one cannot see something concrete by that date, it would be very difficult for some of us to believe you have a chance to sell your ideas and make changes to TTC's Transit City plan.
While I generally have difficulty believing that changes can be made at this point, and particularly ones that will be so expensive, why December 22? What happens on the 23rd? Does the plan turn back into a pumpkin?