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Roads: Six Points Interchange Reconfiguration (City of Toronto, UC)

The extra time lost is by going down 427 and getting caught up with the traffic on 427 as well making the left hand turn on to Dundas St.
You can loose more than 5 minutes at peak time easy.
I have done a time study on this.
Once Kipling is built, all MT service will stop at 427 on Burnhamthorpe.
There are 400+ riders who work around Islington and they will see 10+ minutes of extra traveling time added to their current trip as well paying 2 fares compare to one today.
TTC could still house MT at Islington in the new SNC building like they are doing for their own service in the Eglinton tower.
A fair number of MT riders get on and off MT 20 and 26 routes east of 427 today.
Some are take the East Mall bus north. They will have a longer trip now as well more traveling time around 12 minutes or more.
In the end, riders are getting the short end of the stick while TTC see $$$ in their eye.
Kipling is a major issue for TTC own service today without adding MT and GO to the picture.
If TTC extended the subway to Honeydale Mall area and build a new terminal there for everyone, TTC will see better operations for their own service routes as well for their own riders.
The day is coming when 512 will be making a call at Kipling as well MT Dundas LRT and where are you going to put them if the 2 systems have different gauges?
MT Dundas LRT will happen sooner than 512 as it stand now.
Just to let you know, TTC is starting the EA process for extending the 512 to Jane St this summer. It may end up going to Scarlett Rd at the same time which would make more sense to so now. Once that is done, then looking at going west of Scarlett Rd.
Now, has the 512 and the Kipling line been taken in to consideration for this interchange?
The answer is no.
That new housing complex west of Islington is adding a lot of new riders for MT and it is more than I expected in the first place. How is TTC going to deal with these new riders for transit?


First of all, the 26 wouldn't take the 427 to Kipling. It would go down Burnhamthorpe, and then turn on to Kipling Ave of a hopefully reconfigured Six Points. Why on earth you think it'd take the 427 is beyond me. The 26 isn't an express bus, and the 206 is, and it won't lose any more time than it does going to Islington.
As for people who work at Islington, I doubt there's that many, and even if so, they were lucky not to have to pay two fares to begin with.
MT riders who need to go east of the 427 can still get anywhere they need from the TTC at Kipling. Like I said, they've been getting a free ride all these years. MT's mandate isn't to serve Toronto.
The TTC building a terminal at Honeydale Mall would not be a good idea. Sherway Gardens is a destination, and therefore the right place.
The 512 is going to be going to Kipling? Really? And there's a Dundas LRT in the works? Wow. Never knew that. Talk about planning for the future. The only LRT in Mississauga under study is the Hurontario one, and I haven't seen any LRT construction along Hurontario.
A housing complex west of Islington is adding "a lot of new riders" to MT? How is that? They can't take MT to the subway, only to Mississauga. MT doesn't allow pickups on the way to the subway within Toronto, only dropoffs, and its the opposite the other way around. The TTC serves Toronto. End of story.
 
In the "Arrivederci Honeydale Mall" thread in the Projects and Construction section, there is a link to the planning report for a new mixed-use condo complex at Dundas and the East Mall. The plannoing report contains some very interesting information regarding the history of planning the Bloor Danforth subway extension to Sherway Gardens and beyond, and what requirements would be placed on this new development to facilitate that sometime in the future.

Check out the following from the report:

Map 4 of the City of Toronto Official Plan and Map 3 of the former Metropolitan Toronto
Official Plan provide for the westerly extension of the Bloor-Danforth subway line to Sherway
Gardens and ultimately to Mississauga. An Environmental Assessment Report for the westerly
subway extension was completed by Metropolitan Toronto and the TTC in 1993, and was
approved by the Province 1994. The Environmental Assessment Report recommended an initial
extension of the subway to Sherway Gardens shopping centre and a potential further extension
from Sherway Gardens to the Dixie GO Station in Mississauga. The Report recommended a
tunnelled alignment to Sherway Gardens, immediately north of, and parallel to, the Canadian
Pacific Rail (CPR) corridor between Kipling Subway Station and Highway 427. The alignment
crosses under the CPR corridor just east of Highway 427 and continues westward, still in a
tunnel, to Sherway Gardens.
The Environmental Assessment Report recommended that, upon opening, the subway extension
to Sherway Gardens would have only one new station, at the southeast corner of The Queensway
and The West Mall. A potential future station was identified in the vicinity of The East Mall,
and was to be protected should the need for the station arise in the future. Subsequent
discussions between Metropolitan Toronto, the TTC, the Cities of Etobicoke and Mississauga,
and the Province, during the Province’s review of the Environmental Assessment Report,
resulted in a change in the status of the East Mall station. It was agreed that the station would be
constructed in conjunction with the initial subway extension to Sherway Gardens.
The East Mall station would accommodate a new Mississauga Transit bus terminal, which would
replace the existing Mississauga Transit bus terminal at the Islington subway station. A very
preliminary station concept was developed for the East Mall station, assuming that the existing
commercial developments on the adjacent Honeydale Mall and A&P lands would remain. The
preliminary station concept placed the new station at the southeast corner of the A&P lands,
immediately west Honeydale Mall, with vehicular access to be taken through the intersection of
Dundas Street West and East Mall Crescent. No arrangements have been made to date to secure
the lands required for the subway alignment, the subway station, ancillary station facilities, or
vehicular access to the station.
The proposed redevelopment of Honeydale Mall and the local area review provides a new
opportunity to integrate planning for the proposed East Mall subway station, and its ancillary
station facilities, with the potential future redevelopment of the Mall. Ancillary station facilities
will include TTC and Mississauga Transit bus terminal facilities and passenger pick-up and
drop-off facilities, and may also include GO Transit bus terminal facilities and commuter
parking. Integrated planning of the future subway station with the potential Honeydale Mall
redevelopment will also ensure that use of the future station facilities will be maximized, which
would benefit the development potential of the subject lands.

While there are currently no plans to construct the westerly extension of the subway in the
foreseeable future, any future planning for the redevelopment of the Honeydale Mall lands, or
the adjacent A&P lands, must provide for the future subway extension alignment, the proposed
East Mall station and ancillary station facilities. If it was determined that there was an
opportunity to advance the timing of the construction of the subway extension, an addendum to
the EA report may be required to reflect a new station concept.

-----

Interesting, no? Anyway, the whole report is worth a read. Check it out!

42
 
It is indeed interesting, though I'm baffled as to the reason the extension has to be tunneled the whole way. The line runs on the surface along the rail corridor from Islington to Kipling, so I don't see why it can't stay there further west.
 
It's great to see some planning taking place WRT preserving a right-of-way for a westerly expansion of the subway. This will have to come sooner or later, but Toronto hasn't always been forward-looking on these matters.

It's also great to finally see some progress on the Honeydale property. This mall is almost derelict now and is the sorriest sight I've seen this side of downtown Buffalo.
 
unimaginative - I thought the same until I looked at the overhead in Google Maps today. Looks tricky.
 
However, this will make Mississauga Transit buses take longer to get to Islington. If anything, they should be going to Kipling once this happens. I honestly can't see the point in them going to Islington at all as it stands.

I remember doing this. The only reason I can think of is that Mississauga's routes and permissions in Metro possibly predate the construction of Kipling station, and it wasn't worth the headaches to change everything. When was Kipling built?
 
The Kipling station was opened in 1981. Miss. Transit has been running to Islington station since ?? -- at least 1970s.

There is no room at Kipling, as it presently stands, to accommodate Mississauga buses. That will change as the Kipling station is renovated and expanded in the next few years, specifically to accommodate Mississauga and GO buses.
 
The Kipling station was opened in 1981. Miss. Transit has been running to Islington station since ?? -- at least 1970s.

There is no room at Kipling, as it presently stands, to accommodate Mississauga buses. That will change as the Kipling station is renovated and expanded in the next few years, specifically to accommodate Mississauga and GO buses.

Does anybody know which GO routes will be running out of Kipling? Will they be stopping at Kipling on their way to and from Union? Will Milton corridor buses be cut back from Union? Will this be a whole new route? Is it too early to be asking these questions?
 
Will Milton corridor buses be cut back from Union?

I doubt that, though a part of me would like to see it, if only to subject Milton passengers to the same bloody stupid situation that Georgetown passengers have had to deal with - pay an exorbitant GO fare and be forced to make a transfer (with another fare) on a slow subway to get downtown. Maybe keep one bus every three hours for those who want to go to Union.

Is it too early to be asking these questions?

Seriously, yeah, I think it's a bit early at this point. At least wait until the shovels are in the ground!
 
The area is really vacuous and is probably one of the worst spots to want to live close to- that said, the area is screaming for some attention and some sort of coherent plan to iron out issues like this one- like many of you have pointed out. I know the area quite well and have driven over 6 points a number of times, and still get confused.

It almost seems as though Mississauga has crept in, in the middle of the night and laid claim to the area - long live the strip mall.

p5
 
It almost seems as though Mississauga has crept in, in the middle of the night and laid claim to the area - long live the strip mall.

No no no. The strip mall is the Metro era. Mississauga's the huge indoor mall era. The outer 905 modern fringe is the Big Box Store era. :)
 
The area is really vacuous and is probably one of the worst spots to want to live close to- that said, the area is screaming for some attention and some sort of coherent plan to iron out issues like this one- like many of you have pointed out.
p5

Here's the coherent plan that you were hoping for. I'm especially impressed with the plan for Westwood/six points interchange lands:
http://www.toronto.ca/business/wddi.htm

note to mods: I know this last post is not transportation related but the redevelopment of six points, westwood, islington and kipling subways are all closely intertwined. Each one is contingent on the ohters. Perhaps this thread could be moved to the neighbourhood forum and re-titled Etobcioke Centre?
 
Here's the coherent plan that you were hoping for. I'm especially impressed with the plan for Westwood/six points interchange lands:
http://www.toronto.ca/business/wddi.htm

note to mods: I know this last post is not transportation related but the redevelopment of six points, westwood, islington and kipling subways are all closely intertwined. Each one is contingent on the ohters. Perhaps this thread could be moved to the neighbourhood forum and re-titled Etobcioke Centre?

The face to face is too wide and where is transit on it?
 

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