smallspy
Senior Member
It seems to have less to do with Metrolinx's and CN's working relationship and how its changed over the years, and more to do with the change in Provincial Government.
Dan
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GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
It seems to have less to do with Metrolinx's and CN's working relationship and how its changed over the years, and more to do with the change in Provincial Government.
Dan
salsa
Senior Member
joet00
New Member
Per Ontario.ca, there are 3 advisories/events: MPP Surma at West Harbour for 10am, then the entourage travels to Brampton joined by the Minister. Then across the GTA, to Ajax in the pm.
Are they really reannouncing the Aug 31st Service Changes? Is so, they missed Stouffville. I’m sure those MPPs (Unionville/Markham/Stouffville) would appreciate equal photo-op time.
crs1026
Superstar
I’m told that the construction schedule may have slipped. I doubt they will be saying much about this one in case someone checks against the original promise dates.
- Paul
Allandale25
Senior Member
hw621
Senior Member
Did they ride the train there?
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Hopefully we'll get some answers to the Niagara weekend seasonal stopping in Hamilton (West Harbour) at Town Hall.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Latest on the Steeles grade separation construction from the eblast:
STEELES AVE GRADE SEPARATION - Retaining Wall Drilling and Enbridge Work
- Ongoing drilling for future retaining wall along Steeles Ave between Redlea Ave and Silverstar Blvd.
- Enbridge to install gas lines along Steeles Ave over the next 6 weeks.
STEELES AVE GRADE SEPARATION - Splendid China Mall Access
- August 3, 2019: the eastern vehicular access to Splendid China Mall from Steeles Avenue East was permanently closed.
- The access immediately west of the closure will remain open along with the two entrances from Redlea Avenue.
MILLIKEN GO STATION
- Ongoing Work: South tunnel, east/northeast staircase work including backfilling, mechanical and electrical installation, and work on the elevator pits.
- Parking Lot: Relocated accessibility parking and accessible ramp further south. Later this summer light poles will be installed.
- Pedestrian Pathway: In July, reopened the pedestrian pathway from Steeles Ave. E. to give customers direct access to the station platform. It will stay open until the end of 2019.
- Improvements:
- pedestrian tunnels with elevators and stairs
- new second track and upgrading of existing track
- parking lot modifications
- ancillary building; and other station access and accessibility improvements
STEELES AVE GRADE SEPARATION - Diversion Road
- December 2019: a temporary detour road north of Steeles Ave. E. will be in place.
- The detour is required to build the underpass and pedestrian bridge at Steeles Ave E while maintaining traffic flow.
- Two lanes of traffic in each direction will be maintained throughout and provide access to Redlea Ave and Silver Star Blvd.
- Pedestrians will travel along the temporary roadway via new, temporary pedestrian sidewalks.
- Access to Turff Ave will be permanently closed.
- The temporary detour will be in place until late 2020 (approximately one year).
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I got a reply to my email inquiry, coming directly from the Niagara GO implementation office, as mayor Jim Dodati forwarded my email there:
“...Additionally (and maybe the most relevant to your point of direct Hamilton connections)we are excited that Metrolinx is constructing a connecting platform on the north side CN Mainline track at West Harbour in the fall of this year. At present, the Toronto bound trips from Niagara need to reverse on the CN Mainline track and back into the West Harbour Station – that’s like a car missing an off ramp on the QEW and having to back up with traffic flying past at 120km/hr – certainly not optimal and a primary reason why not all of the trains through Hamilton stop. Once completed, this new platform will lead to a faster trip travel time and more frequent stops at the West Harbour station. Simply put: faster into Toronto, more stops in Hamilton.”
“...Additionally (and maybe the most relevant to your point of direct Hamilton connections)we are excited that Metrolinx is constructing a connecting platform on the north side CN Mainline track at West Harbour in the fall of this year. At present, the Toronto bound trips from Niagara need to reverse on the CN Mainline track and back into the West Harbour Station – that’s like a car missing an off ramp on the QEW and having to back up with traffic flying past at 120km/hr – certainly not optimal and a primary reason why not all of the trains through Hamilton stop. Once completed, this new platform will lead to a faster trip travel time and more frequent stops at the West Harbour station. Simply put: faster into Toronto, more stops in Hamilton.”
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Northern Light
Superstar
Good work on your part both fishing out the info; and regularly holding them accountable for dawdling!
Of course, the down side of your effective advocacy is raised expectations, so, now, we're all waiting for you to get confirmation of 2-way, all-day to Hamilton, no later than June 2020!
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TransitBart
Senior Member
...or accountable for dawdling...
mdrejhon
Senior Member
People know me as a Metrolinx fan. Rightfully so, because previous status quo was way worse than Metrolinx -- the Transit Dark Ages from ~1995 thru ~2005. I'll step up to defend Metrolinx's very critically important existence, imperfect as they may be.
But like my big heated scorcher of a roast of the older Metrolinx GO fare machines (total piles of p** because of some minor bugs that wasted millions of dollars of commuter time) -- There are clear call outs to be made now and then.
Given ramp-up requirements and budget constraints, I'd say it does get realistic 2021 or 2022. My "political analyst" mind suggests the current administration may play the allday card here before next provincial election, to pre-empt election promise opportunities early and cheaply. Regardless of party affiliation one is, it'd an obvious classic move if CN is now happy as they seem to be.Good work on your part both fishing out the info; and regularly holding them accountable for dawdling!
Of course, the down side of your effective advocacy is raised expectations, so, now, we're all waiting for you to get confirmation of 2-way, all-day to Hamilton, no later than June 2020!
As of this year, thanks to the new third track bridge over Desjardins Canal, all prerequisites for allday West Harbour is already built. All the key checklist items of the 2011 Niagara ESR are complete. Nothing in CN freight schedule prevents reliable allday hourly 2way today. It is mainly a matter of operating budget, and politics.
Possibly the north platform will make it easier to deadhead the last late-evening offpeak trains for overnight storage at Lewis Yard, but that's not even a pre-requisite to activating hourly allday 2way, as that is only needed for the final few trains of the evening and they can back out as usual.
It is theoretically possible that until Confederation is built, then nearly all West Harbour trains will probably mainly call the north platform -- keeping the two tracks unused for a few years until a third track is built from West Harbour to Confederation (easily postponed a few years). Ironic for allday 2way service to not call the inner platforms, but at least a cheap fix is proceeding. However, if 2way is activated only to West Harbour for now, that is cheaper and can happen sooner.
Delay to 2025 would be chiefly because of CN bills(cost) and politics. But only four trains needs to deadhead to Lewis Yard at night in Grimsby) to start the next day"s service. And now Metrolinx is already paying that cost already with the service doubling at West Harbour! They can just switch direction in the West Harbour spur, just like Aldershot trains switches directions. They don't even refuel every single train every half hour at Aldershot, so just doing hourly to West Harbour (extending every other Aldershot train) means a schedule pattern probably exists that does not require refueling facilities at West Harbour in theory.
So addition of hourly trains will not create any extra deadheads on non-Metrolinx-built CN track. The biggie operating cost is the addition of 1 extra trainset, as there's not enough time margin to extend LW without an extra trainset (shining a batlight to you, @reaperexpress to visualize a theoretical timetable!)
And Metrolinx now has a dedicated track to West Harbour so they could terminus Lakeshore West at West Harbour (instead of Aldershot) at practically little extra cost. CN probably wouldn't charge much extra if they do not activate Confederation yet too. Only send peak trains (and the ones that would deadhead otherwise) to Confederation until the third track is built. That will minimize transits on non-Metrolinx-funded CN trackage. Assuming CN is giving less favourable pricing on track that Metrolinx didn't capital-fund.
So 2020 introduction finally seems feasible. Capacity is there now. It probably require one extra trainset to extend Lakeshore from Aldershot terminus to West Harbour terminus. It's just CN and politics now.
Thoughts about 2020 allday scenario, @smallspy?
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crs1026
Superstar
Don’t be so sure. We don’t know whether CN still requires more work between Hamilton Jct and Bayview. That was in the plan at one point.
There is a big difference between squeezing more trains into a limited window (AM and PM peaks) versus agreeing that there will be GO trains on the track all day, every day. The Hamilton Jct area is a tricky point for freight - although there aren’t that many of them, they do require main line occupancy on both sides of West Harbour Station for periods of time. The couple of moves a day that have to climb from there up to Bayview and east to the entrance to Aldershot Yard need a straight run at the grade. RTC’s have told me that the prospect of a freight train stalling in that location is one of their more acute worries from day to day. We don’t know if that new bridge resolved all that sufficiently for CN to agree to all day service.
ML’s modus operandi of feeding us bite sized servings of news based on patchwork incremental investments, while refusing to come clean about their overall plans is a big part of the problem. This could all fall into place next year, or it could be years away. We simply don’t know.
- Paul
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Fair counterpoints.
Right, I was so focussed south of the lake, that I just realized that there isn't a dedicated Metrolinx track between Bayview and Aldershot. So mainline transits would increase. I'm staring at the 2009-2011 Niagara documents including the Hamilton Junction Feasibility Study and the Niagara Rail Expansion ESR Figures for some hints of missing pre-requisites.
Right, I was so focussed south of the lake, that I just realized that there isn't a dedicated Metrolinx track between Bayview and Aldershot. So mainline transits would increase. I'm staring at the 2009-2011 Niagara documents including the Hamilton Junction Feasibility Study and the Niagara Rail Expansion ESR Figures for some hints of missing pre-requisites.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
I'm reminded of an infuriating conversation back during the pre-UPX upgrades to Weston where somebody in service planning took great pains to emphasize that having the ability to do all day two way to Bramalea in no way shape or form meant they had any intention of doing it in the near future.