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GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

steveintoronto

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As noted in the Metrolinx: (other items) catch all thread, Metrolinx published on May 25th the responses.


@steveintoronto
I already responded to it within an hour (edit: Couple of hours) of it being posted. It's trite. It's a classic case of obfuscation and pap stock answers that say nothing. Most of the answers refer to the footage we've all been quoting from the Town Hall meeting. They still refuse to post a written transcript...
 
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ShonTron

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I came upon this map from a recent Metrolinx presentation showing planned improvements to the Halton Sub through Brampton and Georgetown.

The first phase of track improvements includes a new connection from the third platform at Bramalea Station to the mainline, as well as a second track leading westbound out of Georgetown Station/Yard. I would guess that Phase I is coincident with major station construction at Bramalea, which includes a new bus loop, new tunnel and bridge, and parking garage.

A second phase would extend the third track from Mount Pleasant to Georgetown, probably for the benefit of CN freights as it wouldn't connect with the Georgetown GO tracks. Finally, the third phase would build that third track through Brampton Station on the south side, and build a track flyover/flyunder between Mount Pleasant and Georgetown.

There would also be a third track on the GO Weston Sub and another platform at Bramalea for local/RER trains - tying in with the 401/409 tunnel and the plans to finally build the fourth track on the section dominated by UP Express.

As Brampton is now planning to tear down 8 Nelson Street West and replace the bus terminal (among other things) this will make the third track downtown easier to build.

GOKitchenerTrack.jpg
 

steveintoronto

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^ This was discussed briefly (in this string?) as per the 'flyover' (in purple) being (gist) "back on" as per @crs1026 . The map is an almost complete admission or acceptance by the present QP/ML regime that their (gist) "Close working relationship with CN" is appeasement and not CN's accommodation of finding a simpler, cheaper and faster to implement solution.

If one accepts the politics as they seem, this looks like a very good approach, it satisfies most if not all needs.

And now...the funding. I hear crickets chirping...

I noticed a few more trucks yesterday at Wade St and the Barrie Line (site of the legendary Davenport Flyover). It looked like the CP contracted crew, I'll check again, cycling past there in few minutes.
 

Allandale25

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I already responded to it within an hour (edit: Couple of hours) of it being posted. It's trite. It's a classic case of obfuscation and pap stock answers that say nothing. Most of the answers refer to the footage we've all been quoting from the Town Hall meeting. They still refuse to post a written transcript...
Cool - hadn't seen your response within the hour it was posted on May 25th.
 

Allandale25

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I came upon this map from a recent Metrolinx presentation showing planned improvements to the Halton Sub through Brampton and Georgetown.

The first phase of track improvements includes a new connection from the third platform at Bramalea Station to the mainline, as well as a second track leading westbound out of Georgetown Station/Yard. I would guess that Phase I is coincident with major station construction at Bramalea, which includes a new bus loop, new tunnel and bridge, and parking garage.

A second phase would extend the third track from Mount Pleasant to Georgetown, probably for the benefit of CN freights as it wouldn't connect with the Georgetown GO tracks. Finally, the third phase would build that third track through Brampton Station on the south side, and build a track flyover/flyunder between Mount Pleasant and Georgetown.

There would also be a third track on the GO Weston Sub and another platform at Bramalea for local/RER trains - tying in with the 401/409 tunnel and the plans to finally build the fourth track on the section dominated by UP Express.

As Brampton is now planning to tear down 8 Nelson Street West and replace the bus terminal (among other things) this will make the third track downtown easier to build.

View attachment 190195
And just by way of comparison, here's how the several track plan options were graphically displayed in the appendix of the 2015 initial Business Case Analysis of GO RER.

Page 88 graphic.png
Page 88 graphic.png
Page 111 graphic.png
Page 122 graphic.png
 

Allandale25

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^ This was discussed briefly (in this string?) as per the 'flyover' (in purple) being (gist) "back on" as per @crs1026 . The map is an almost complete admission or acceptance by the present QP/ML regime that their (gist) "Close working relationship with CN" is appeasement and not CN's accommodation of finding a simpler, cheaper and faster to implement solution.
I would assume the cost of the flyer over (purple line), third track in downtown Brampton (also a purple line), and another stretch of third track (blue line) would be a lot less expensive than 30 km of new bypass tracks for CN (which would have included moving some hydro towers and more grade separations - see below). A Metrolinx presentation broke down the $2.25B bypass plan as being $1.45B for the bypass tracks, $0.5B for electrification between Bramalea-Georgetown-KW, and $0.3B for the new Georgetown-KW track. I would also assume it would be faster to implement than the bypass option. In December 2018 the Minister said they wouldn't pursue the bypass plan and would move forward with an alternative to add more service on the Kitchener Line faster.

In terms of a cost comparison between $2.25B for the bypass plan and this alternative plan, PDF page 98 in the Initial BCA appendix provides some context, and puts the cost at $.320B. Given the federal government provided $752 million or so for the Kitchener Line, it'll be interesting to see if or how that's used and if we'll know before the federal election starts.

190221



190220
 

Allandale25

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I came upon this map from a recent Metrolinx presentation showing planned improvements to the Halton Sub through Brampton and Georgetown.

The first phase of track improvements includes a new connection from the third platform at Bramalea Station to the mainline, as well as a second track leading westbound out of Georgetown Station/Yard. I would guess that Phase I is coincident with major station construction at Bramalea, which includes a new bus loop, new tunnel and bridge, and parking garage.
Speaking of Bramalea Station...

 

crs1026

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^That chart is very reassuring - pleased to see that the design has evolved - at this point I doubt they would divulge any design that CN hadn't seen or indicated comfort with. So I have to conclude that it reflects a potential announcement re agreement to proceed.

I'm also pleased to see that some of the existing trackage is shown as "GO Invested" as opposed to simply "CN Owned". That would further suggest that CN is not declaring sole ownership of those sections, and implies shared use over the long term. It's likely time to stop claiming that "CN is anti-GO".

It looks like the final span of the Credit River bridge is going to be built. That's a good thing.

The only puzzle for me is the track arrangement at Georgetown, which is a bit ambiguous as to how VIA will route, and is the third track being squeezed in between the depot and the existing double CN track. It looks like a route is being created to run west out of the Georgetown station back on the CN Halton line - that's a bit of a surprise. I suspect I'm reading the lines a bit too literally. The design at Georgetown has changed a couple of times on paper, it will be interesting to see the latest version.

Overall, it suggests CN is comfortable with GO as a long term two-way player on this route. We don't know if there is a limit to their commitment - ie a contractual upper limit to how many trains or what headways can be - but there appears to be enough track for a very meaningful 2WAD.

Can we just get this built, please?

- Paul
 

Allandale25

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The only puzzle for me is the track arrangement at Georgetown, which is a bit ambiguous as to how VIA will route, and is the third track being squeezed in between the depot and the existing double CN track. It looks like a route is being created to run west out of the Georgetown station back on the CN Halton line - that's a bit of a surprise. I suspect I'm reading the lines a bit too literally. The design at Georgetown has changed a couple of times on paper, it will be interesting to see the latest version.

- Paul
The Georgetown part on the graphic @ShonTron posted from a Metrolinx presentation is indeed unclear. That's why I'm wondering if the 2015 graphics do a better job of communicating what they intend to do and the 2019 version just wasn't as specific/articulate as the 2015 ones.
 

smallspy

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The only puzzle for me is the track arrangement at Georgetown, which is a bit ambiguous as to how VIA will route, and is the third track being squeezed in between the depot and the existing double CN track.

- Paul
This was the location of the most-recent station siding, and if you go back further, the original location of the southern-most main line track. There's more than enough room to allow it to squeeze in there.

Dan
 

steveintoronto

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I noticed a few more trucks yesterday at Wade St and the Barrie Line (site of the legendary Davenport Flyover). It looked like the CP contracted crew, I'll check again, cycling past there in few minutes.
Indeed PNR, under contract to CP, for the Diamond. As is...I have some more info, but I'm loathe to divulge it, the super was good enough to tell me what he did. But let's say that what you see is what you're going be getting for some time at the Davenport Diamond.
 

raptor

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Indeed PNR, under contract to CP, for the Diamond. As is...I have some more info, but I'm loathe to divulge it, the super was good enough to tell me what he did. But let's say that what you see is what you're going be getting for some time at the Davenport Diamond.
They're activating the new signals around the diamond this weekend. Buses will replace trains on the Barrie line on June 15-16.
 

crs1026

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This was the location of the most-recent station siding, and if you go back further, the original location of the southern-most main line track. There's more than enough room to allow it to squeeze in there.

Dan
Oh, I know it fits .... what I meant was, do they intend to put it back, or will the third track go on the north side?

The south side platform benefits from the extra platform width, but maybe there won't be a platform on the south side anymore. And I would hate for the fencing to get any worse at that location ;-)

- Paul
 

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