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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

STC and MCC both are where they are. I 100% disagree that we shouldn't be bringing transit to them, and I fully support extending Line 2 to STC. Line 2 should also be extended to MCC, but until Mississauga decides it wants that, it won't happen. In the meantime, we're getting the Mississauga BRT.
 
howl said:
Building on that idea, one of the big picture problems with transit planning in the suburban GTA is the land use planning has been based on automobile corridors, not the existing transit corridors. Both the Scarborough Town Centre and the Mississauga City Centre are located to be fully accessible by car, but that makes them difficult to access by existing major transit lines. The SRT is effectively a shuttle bus that takes people from where the city centre should be, if it were transit friendly, to where they located it to make it automobile-friendly. If major high density nodes were located around or adjacent to existing GO stations - the GO system could effectively become the "subway"-level transit for the GTA and a network of lower-cost LRTs and BRTs could service the areas in between.

Notwithstanding the cost differential and level of service, if you want to get from Kennedy station to Union station by far the quickest way is to jump on the GO Train (26 minutes for GO vs. 41 minutes by subway). So increase the level of service and reduce the fare for GO and there is no need to build a new multi-billion dollar subway line. Then leave the STC as a suburban mall and make areas around the five or six existing GO stations in Scarborough the new high-density development nodes. The same would apply for all suburban areas in the GTA. Don't bring the transit to the development, bring the development to the transit.
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The Stouffville line is almost at capacity in the peak periods, so I can't see more people being stuffed onto the existing trains unless frequencies on the line increase substantially. Also, the new subway line would serve more than Scarborough. There's the whole east and west side of downtown that could really use some transit investment to relieve the streetcar network.
 
ssiguy2 said:
A city that desperately needs a another downtown subway, make Eglinton grade separated and an effective GO REX system and it's going to blow a massive $3 billion on a tiny subway extension.

Imagine what that $3 billion would do to electrify all the GO line in the city, run OTrain EMUs and bring true mass/rapid transit to all areas of the city but alas no. Toronto really does deserve to have the tiny little system it's got. Even when it gets the money it says it desperately needs, it turns around and spends it on a tiny little extension that won't cut down anybody's commute no matter where in the city they live. Pathetic.
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Half that amount really. There still would have been $1.8b spent on the LRT.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
STC and MCC both are where they are. I 100% disagree that we shouldn't be bringing transit to them, and I fully support extending Line 2 to STC. Line 2 should also be extended to MCC, but until Mississauga decides it wants that, it won't happen. In the meantime, we're getting the Mississauga BRT.
Click to expand...

The BRT isn't going to be very useful for people like myself who live in Toronto and work in the MCC area. The time savings from the grade-seperated section will be lost when the buses have to deal with the traffic on the 427, and Dundas Street.

The current location of City Centre Bus terminal isn't that great either.
 
howl said:
Building on that idea, one of the big picture problems with transit planning in the suburban GTA is the land use planning has been based on automobile corridors, not the existing transit corridors. Both the Scarborough Town Centre and the Mississauga City Centre are located to be fully accessible by car, but that makes them difficult to access by existing major transit lines. The SRT is effectively a shuttle bus that takes people from where the city centre should be, if it were transit friendly, to where they located it to make it automobile-friendly. If major high density nodes were located around or adjacent to existing GO stations - the GO system could effectively become the "subway"-level transit for the GTA and a network of lower-cost LRTs and BRTs could service the areas in between.

Notwithstanding the cost differential and level of service, if you want to get from Kennedy station to Union station by far the quickest way is to jump on the GO Train (26 minutes for GO vs. 41 minutes by subway). So increase the level of service and reduce the fare for GO and there is no need to build a new multi-billion dollar subway line. Then leave the STC as a suburban mall and make areas around the five or six existing GO stations in Scarborough the new high-density development nodes. The same would apply for all suburban areas in the GTA. Don't bring the transit to the development, bring the development to the transit.
Click to expand...

Its too bad you are not on Metrolinx. Metrolinx is suppose to have experts but instead do not know anything except if its political
 
howl said:
Then leave the STC as a suburban mall and make areas around the five or six existing GO stations in Scarborough the new high-density development nodes. The same would apply for all suburban areas in the GTA. Don't bring the transit to the development, bring the development to the transit.
Click to expand...

How would high-density development surrounding GO stations look like in practice? I am picturing something like the Shops at Don Mills (Don Mills&Lawrence) in my head.
 
ssiguy2 said:
A city that desperately needs a another downtown subway, make Eglinton grade separated and an effective GO REX system and it's going to blow a massive $3 billion on a tiny subway extension.

Imagine what that $3 billion would do to electrify all the GO line in the city, run OTrain EMUs and bring true mass/rapid transit to all areas of the city but alas no. Toronto really does deserve to have the tiny little system it's got. Even when it gets the money it says it desperately needs, it turns around and spends it on a tiny little extension that won't cut down anybody's commute no matter where in the city they live. Pathetic.
Click to expand...

One thing that seems clear is that Toronto's transit woes are not even related to money - they are poor planning, or maybe politics getting in the way of proper planning.

If designed properly from the start, the Eglinton/SRT subway (mini-metro) could have been built for the same cost as the Transit City version.

The money that is now available for the first phase projects (Sheppard, Finch, B-D extension) could have completed the Sheppard subway from Downsview to STC, or probably more preferably, the first phase and a half of the DRL (maybe Spadina to Thorncliffe)
 
OFF Topic: For those who have said that the GO/CP tracks could be shifted to the south to allow the subway into the rail Corridor that I have stated that cannot be done, here are a couple shot I took on March 7 while looking at an option for the BRT issue at Kipling. The BRT idea I was looking at will not work.

The corridor will only support 4 tracks.
13033371135_fc8597b648_b.jpg


13033519103_3a7ae499cd_b.jpg


13033367005_94be2aa616_b.jpg
 
doesn't surprise me, but disappoints me. She has made remarks about it before as an MP as well. I guess the LRT/Subway debate isn't over yet.
 
I was disappointed Chow didn't call Stinz and Ford out for voting to increase property taxes to pay for the subway, after they called her a "tax and spend" socialist.

Chow should hammer Stinz and Ford for their hypocricsy.
 
innsertnamehere said:
doesn't surprise me, but disappoints me. She has made remarks about it before as an MP as well. I guess the LRT/Subway debate isn't over yet.
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StevieD said:
Yup. This is what Sokancki doesn't get either.
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Except, at least in the case of the provincial Liberals, they caveated their move to subways with statements that they were building the transit the city was asking them to build (I recall this statement because it seemed like pandering to me and left me with the impression that every non-subway project was subject to redesign/re-budgeting because of it).

If a new mayor of Toronto shifted the focus back to LRT, I am pretty sure both the Feds and Province would find a way to support it...particularly if it were early in the new Mayor's term and the sense was that within the 4 year term it could be well underway and that this was the "last" shift.
 
Adjei said:
Just heard Olivia Chow say she supports the LRT on TV.
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I heard her say that the Scarborough LRT does not interfere with traffic. But she didn't explain how this would be accomplished for the Eglinton LRT - which is in Scarborough.:)
 
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