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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

ehlow said:
Lawrence or Bayview LRT time? :)
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Good idea :)
salsa said:
It is not a 3 minute bus ride. Google maps says it's 13 minutes, which doesn't include walking and wait time. My friend used to take that bus everyday when he studied at Centennial, and he would always tell me how much he hated it, how it was always crowded, uncomfortable, slow, and bunching up. It's a real shame that Centennial will never get real rapid transit thanks to political meddling.
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JayBeeGooner said:
And I guarantee Murray's idea of BRT is based on DRT Pulse which is not even BRT or so called "BRT-Lite."
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innsertnamehere said:
The plans are fairly detailed for it, the existing pulse service with bulked up service and a curb side bus lane. I'm sure the TTC would be allowed to use the lanes..
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Exactly JayBee. The trip is still a hike from STC. I hope it becomes faster. Cenntennial would have been helped greatly by the SRT too.

howl said:
Routing transit lines is a lot more than just linking up all the already developed areas. All of those existing suburban higher-density developed area are designed to be served by cars and people live there because they like driving (otherwise they would live downtown). One important factor in picking a new higher-order transit route is to hit all the areas where there is the potential for new transit oriented development. That may mean running the line through underdeveloped neighbourhoods rather than fully-developed neighbourhoods.
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I can't disagree with this. My only concern was that one of the things I give transit city credit for was linking up the city end to end. I worry that will never happen now.
 
howl said:
Routing transit lines is a lot more than just linking up all the already developed areas. All of those existing suburban higher-density developed area are designed to be served by cars and people live there because they like driving (otherwise they would live downtown). One important factor in picking a new higher-order transit route is to hit all the areas where there is the potential for new transit oriented development. That may mean running the line through underdeveloped neighbourhoods rather than fully-developed neighbourhoods.
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How about they live there because they can't afford to live downtown or they just don't want to live downtown? Not everyone wants to live downtown.
 
BurlOak said:
True, but UTSC is 4 times bigger.

I wonder what the populations are of the various university and College campuses across Toronto.
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According to Wiki (consider the source)....UTSC has just over 10k undergrads...Glendon 2,600 and UTM 12,500
 
innsertnamehere said:
they are still only a 3 minute bus ride away. the subway does have higher ridership than the LRT. the centennial stop would have had no connecting bus routes and it is a very small campus to justify a subway. even if 2/3rd of the students and employees took the subway there every day it would just barely break the "break even" level for a subway stop. (in reality will probably be closer to 1/3 the students and employees)
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I'm not familiar with what transit is like to Centennial so I can't really speak to daily conditions. My point was that one of the biggest pro LRT arguments was that the LRT reaches more people (while the subway would have more users). The capture area for Centennial station must take up a sizable chunk of the 47000 people in range of the LRT. (For that matter it's not like the industrial area from Kennedy north to STC is really walkable from those stations for the employees there.) I remember Minister Murray saying the most people going to Centennial come from the east. Now if that it true then the LRT/subway doesn't matter (personally I'm not too sure of this being true).
 
howl said:
Routing transit lines is a lot more than just linking up all the already developed areas. All of those existing suburban higher-density developed area are designed to be served by cars and people live there because they like driving (otherwise they would live downtown).
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If they were really rich, then maybe they would live downtown.

howl said:
One important factor in picking a new higher-order transit route is to hit all the areas where there is the potential for new transit oriented development. That may mean running the line through underdeveloped neighbourhoods rather than fully-developed neighbourhoods.
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Higher-order transit routes succeed primarily due to feeder routes, which bring the majority of riders. Downtown stations are the only exception to that rule, and even that exception is partial, because most of riders who walk into / out of those downtown stations take feeder routes at the other end of their trip.

Therefore, the top consideration for selecting a route for higher-order transit should be its ability to be fed by local surface routes. Local transit oriented development should be treated as a secondary factor.
 
Been looking thru the last few pages to get an update but I'm still lost.

Is the BD subway expansion to Sheppard a go or not? I can only assume it will be tunneled to make sure it "world class" and doesn't block the view at the bohemians at McCafe.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Been looking thru the last few pages to get an update but I'm still lost.

Is the BD subway expansion to Sheppard a go or not? I can only assume it will be tunneled to make sure it "world class" and doesn't block the view at the bohemians at McCafe.
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Nothing has changed in the past 4 months. They have acquired about $3.5B from the original SRT replacement funding, from the federal government, and from agreed upon future City property tax increases.

  • The current Mayor and Councillors voted for a roughly $3.5B B-D extension to Sheppard via McCowan - fully underground.
  • The current government, I believe, has yet to endorse this and at last official word is supporting the roughly $3.5B B-D extension via a complete rebuild of the existing route (some at grade, some elevated), past Centennial to Sheppard/Markham Rd.
  • One tier 2 Mayoralty candidate, and a few Councillors still want to go back to the Transit City LRT plan with a forced transfer at Kennedy.
  • All other major Mayoralty candidates support the $3.5B B-D extension to Sheppard via McCowan
  • Nobody is proposing a roughly $2.5B solution that would connect the SRT/LRT to an elevated Eglinton line - and then using the saving towards the DRL that everyone says is the #1 priority.
  • Other Provincial parties have yet to officially weigh in on this.
 
BurlOak said:
Nothing has changed in the past 4 months. They have acquired about $3.5B from the original SRT replacement funding, from the federal government, and from agreed upon future City property tax increases.

[*]All other major Mayoralty candidates support the $3.5B B-D extension to Sheppard via McCowan

[/LIST]
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Not quite correct. What Tory said is he won't open the debate. Soknacki says he would cancel the Scarborough subway. Stinz supports it on;y because she knew she would be running for mayor and is buying votes.
 
Stintz has supported it for years, all the way back to when she wrestled the all underground Eglinton line from Ford. she just wasn't as vocal about it, and instead was concerning herself with getting rid of what was a retarded plan for an all underground Eglinton. Her initial offer was to surface Eglinton, extend Sheppard to Vic Park, and build a BRT on Finch.
 
I remember during one of the Sheppard Subway town hall debates Stintz said they were looking at the BD extension. The idea for the extension goes back but there was a stupid period of silence between the transit city debate and the current Scarborough subway plan.
 
A city that desperately needs a another downtown subway, make Eglinton grade separated and an effective GO REX system and it's going to blow a massive $3 billion on a tiny subway extension.

Imagine what that $3 billion would do to electrify all the GO line in the city, run OTrain EMUs and bring true mass/rapid transit to all areas of the city but alas no. Toronto really does deserve to have the tiny little system it's got. Even when it gets the money it says it desperately needs, it turns around and spends it on a tiny little extension that won't cut down anybody's commute no matter where in the city they live. Pathetic.
 
ssiguy2 said:
A city that desperately needs a another downtown subway, make Eglinton grade separated and an effective GO REX system and it's going to blow a massive $3 billion on a tiny subway extension.

Imagine what that $3 billion would do to electrify all the GO line in the city, run OTrain EMUs and bring true mass/rapid transit to all areas of the city but alas no. Toronto really does deserve to have the tiny little system it's got. Even when it gets the money it says it desperately needs, it turns around and spends it on a tiny little extension that won't cut down anybody's commute no matter where in the city they live. Pathetic.
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Building on that idea, one of the big picture problems with transit planning in the suburban GTA is the land use planning has been based on automobile corridors, not the existing transit corridors. Both the Scarborough Town Centre and the Mississauga City Centre are located to be fully accessible by car, but that makes them difficult to access by existing major transit lines. The SRT is effectively a shuttle bus that takes people from where the city centre should be, if it were transit friendly, to where they located it to make it automobile-friendly. If major high density nodes were located around or adjacent to existing GO stations - the GO system could effectively become the "subway"-level transit for the GTA and a network of lower-cost LRTs and BRTs could service the areas in between.

Notwithstanding the cost differential and level of service, if you want to get from Kennedy station to Union station by far the quickest way is to jump on the GO Train (26 minutes for GO vs. 41 minutes by subway). So increase the level of service and reduce the fare for GO and there is no need to build a new multi-billion dollar subway line. Then leave the STC as a suburban mall and make areas around the five or six existing GO stations in Scarborough the new high-density development nodes. The same would apply for all suburban areas in the GTA. Don't bring the transit to the development, bring the development to the transit.
 
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