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Brampton Transit/Zum

Sandpit

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If you take population growth into account, Brampton's transit ridership growth hasn't been that different from Mississauga, Toronto, Waterloo, London, Kingston, and other Ontario municipalities. For example, from 2003 to 2014, before the LRT construction began, the ridership of Waterloo Region increased from 29 to 49 per capita. Brampton went from 22 to 36 riders per capita during that same period.

From 2003 to 2017, Brampton's transit ridership increased from 22 to 45 per capita, Mississauga 38 to 51, London from 50 to 60, Kingston from 25 to 35.



Brampton spends around $100 per capita annually on transit operations, the same as Mississauga and York Region. Brampton Transit net operating budget is around $70 million annually, MiWay $80 million, YRT $110 million.

I think if anything York Region was the most aggressive adding transit service. The introduction of VIVA was like 40% service increase in one year. But the ridership never materialized. York Region spends 40% more on transit operations than Mississauga but Mississauga has 15% more transit service (1.3 million service hours annually for YRT vs. 1.5 million for MiWay). Sometimes lack of spending is not the problem.
For YRT, I think the high fares are a big problem. They need to postpone the fare increase scheduled to take effect this July 1 to 2021 (in other words, freeze fares at 2018 levels for two years). Ideally, I would say they need to reduce fares to match Brampton Transit, but that's not gonna happen.
 

raptor

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Anecdotal evidence but I think Brampton has more residents who are likely to use public transit and not drive while York Region is more expensive and more people are driving and hence likely to use public transit. These are just observations I have made from driving and using public transit in both Brampton and Vaughan areas.
bingo
 

doady

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Anecdotal evidence but I think Brampton has more residents who are likely to use public transit and not drive while York Region is more expensive and more people are driving and hence likely to use public transit. These are just observations I have made from driving and using public transit in both Brampton and Vaughan areas.
Vaughan is just poorly planned. Look at the gap between Highway 7 and Rutherford Road. Compare that to Brampton which built new arterial corridors like Sandalwood Parkway and Williams Parkway so that the bus routes are closer together.

For YRT, I think the high fares are a big problem. They need to postpone the fare increase scheduled to take effect this July 1 to 2021 (in other words, freeze fares at 2018 levels for two years). Ideally, I would say they need to reduce fares to match Brampton Transit, but that's not gonna happen.
York Region was a bit too aggressive with the fare increases but I think the high fares are more the symptom of the lack of ridership than the other way around. Again, the amount of subsidy that YRT gets is already similar to Brampton Transit and MiWay.

No I think it is the TTC fares that limit the transit ridership in York Region more. Double fare to cross Steeles or even to use the 53 and 60 buses is too much. A lot of Brampton Transit riders transfer to 42 Derry and 104 Derry Express no problem.
 

innsertnamehere

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Vaughan is just poorly planned. Look at the gap between Highway 7 and Rutherford Road. Compare that to Brampton which built new arterial corridors like Sandalwood Parkway and Williams Parkway so that the bus routes are closer together.



York Region was a bit too aggressive with the fare increases but I think the high fares are more the symptom of the lack of ridership than the other way around. Again, the amount of subsidy that YRT gets is already similar to Brampton Transit and MiWay.

No I think it is the TTC fares that limit the transit ridership in York Region more. Double fare to cross Steeles or even to use the 53 and 60 buses is too much. A lot of Brampton Transit riders transfer to 42 Derry and 104 Derry Express no problem.
There is a fairly large gap between Steeles and Queen.

That said, Brampton's concession blocks are about 1.4x3.1km, while York's are 2.1x2.1km. 3km between arterials is clearly too far, so they had new east-west roads built to fill in the gaps - this results in a "grid" of arterials of about 1.5x1.5km. This results in literally half the area within each block, meaning that transit coverage and traffic is much improved. Way more grid capacity for vehicles, and much more of the block interiors are walkable from a transit station.

It's a similar reason why traffic is generally so light and transit so effective in Scarborough. Concession blocks are only 850m wide - which means north-south roadway capacity is huge.

i'd say York Region actually has the worst arterial traffic in the GTA because of it's massive space between arterial roads. And unlike other areas which have constructed mid-concession arterials, York Region has very few. And the few that are there are discontinuous.
 

narduch

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Connecting the different Langstaff Roads would help immensely, however, York Region is not in any rush to implement it.
Langstaff Road EA started 2 years ago.
Plus at this point it would be nearly impossible to connect it between 27 and Islington.

They really need to combine Pine Valley as well but there is no way that will ever happen
 

innsertnamehere

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Plus at this point it would be nearly impossible to connect it between 27 and Islington.

They really need to combine Pine Valley as well but there is no way that will ever happen
York Region tried to do that one a few years ago I believe and the environmentalists stopped it. The sad part is that it's only an 800m gap that I believe historically was actually open as a road.
 

narduch

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York Region tried to do that one a few years ago I believe and the environmentalists stopped it. The sad part is that it's only an 800m gap that I believe historically was actually open as a road.
'Environmentalist'? Or the rich home owners at the National Estates?
 

ShonTron

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There is a fairly large gap between Steeles and Queen.
And it's a pain in the butt. The CN Railway crossing diagonally doesn't help, and the industrial areas of Brampton (west of Highway 410) and Bramalea (east) were planned independently before amalgamation. Traffic is forced onto Steeles and Queen, while Glidden, Clarence, Orenda, and Clark are discontinuous. The City of Brampton is currently working on an EA to extend Clark Boulevard between Rutherford and Hansen and connect to Eastern Avenue, which would help (and allow for long-term development of the area of the old industrial area immediately south of Queen). I'd really like to see a cycle track on the Clark extension, and extended east over the 410 and over to Bramalea City Centre to start building a proper east-west cycle grid to connect the north-south ravine-based routes.
 

Transportfan

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'Environmentalist'? Or the rich home owners at the National Estates?
But environmentalists did stop the extension of Langstaff into Brampton, Cottrelle Blvd., from being connected to Williams Pkwy. across the West Humber. When the City realigned a later extension of Cottrelle to connect to North Park Dr. as a compromise at a narrower point upstream to be built at a later date, environmentalists piped up and stopped that too as the construction start date drew near.
 

TOareaFan

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In another thread people are talking about how local transit should adjust/improve to make taking the train to GO a more viable proposition. As a user of BT to get to GO (whenever I ride the GO) i think BT already does a good job with this....but you can see in the above how much it matters......look through those service/timetable adjustments...the number 1 reason is to to improve connectivity at GO stations!
 

johntauren

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I'm glad they're always improving the connections - I always grab the earlier bus that arrives before my connecting train in the few instances I need a Go train myself. But I've often seen a Brampton bus arrive just as the train is ready to depart.

I wish they would coordinate Go bus connections in the very late evening.
For example, 15 NB runs from Bramalea Go at :27 / :57 in the evening on weekends, but the Go bus from Union arrives at :10 / :35
That's quite a bit of time to be waiting for a bus, in the dark probably alone.
 

TOareaFan

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I'm glad they're always improving the connections - I always grab the earlier bus that arrives before my connecting train in the few instances I need a Go train myself. But I've often seen a Brampton bus arrive just as the train is ready to depart.
I am fortunate enough that my trip to the GO involves the very frequent 7 and 1/501 buses so schedules don't mean much to me.

I wish they would coordinate Go bus connections in the very late evening.
For example, 15 NB runs from Bramalea Go at :27 / :57 in the evening on weekends, but the Go bus from Union arrives at :10 / :35
That's quite a bit of time to be waiting for a bus, in the dark probably alone.
Have you contacted them? They seem very willing to listen to customer suggestions/feedback.....I see what you are saying about that wait at Bramalea GO on weekend nghts....I wonder what the right amount of connection time is? 17 and 22 minutes does sound "long" but I wonder how much shorter you can make it before delayed GO buses mean people miss their connections frequently.
 

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