2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[denfromoakvillemilton]

At least Tory knows where the wall is, unlike a certain candidate who appears to be slipping rapidly.

Tory says anything and everything to make people like you happy. He rules by opinion polls. And I want to know why you keep saying Chow does not support the DRL when she has said in public she does multiple times now.

Not without the Liberal cabinet and council supporting them. Rob's support wouldn't be nearly enough, and there is little chance council would give him control of the transit file like they did in 2010.

Say goodbye to the DRL if that nightmare ever happened.

They haven't even decided on the DRL now so what's the point? Have they finished the studies yet? And I don't see how it would effect the DRL. But I guess you think the council would stay exactly the same. And for the record the SELRT barely passed last time.

 

[GenerationW]

Tory says anything and everything to make people like you happy. He rules by opinion polls. And I want to know why you keep saying Chow does not support the DRL when she has said in public she does multiple times now.

That was a horrible assumption. When did I say I was happy with Tory?

At the very least Chow is underplaying the DRL by saying it's at least 15 years away. Sorry, but that sort of pathetic advocacy by a mayor on behalf of our biggest transit priority would only contribute to Toronto getting no DRL.

They haven't even decided on the DRL now so what's the point? Have they finished the studies yet? And I don't see how it would effect the DRL. But I guess you think the council would stay exactly the same. And for the record the SELRT barely passed last time.

You really don't see how spending billions on a Sheppard subway and putting Eglinton completely underground might affect the DRL, as well as other projects? That $15 billion will only go so far.

Yeah, it passed 24-19 right before his crack scandal. Even if he wins again, he'll never have as much influence on Council as he did then. Now he's losing votes 36-2.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That was a horrible assumption. When did I say I was happy with Tory?

At the very least Chow is underplaying the DRL by saying it's at least 15 years away. Sorry, but that sort of pathetic advocacy by a mayor on behalf of our biggest transit priority would only contribute to Toronto getting no DRL.

What's ridiculous is that you're asking this as if you have not been pro Tory for most of the summer. Chow has mentioned many times the DRL needs to built now, it was in her map. She has also said she want to improve commutes now using the buses (the same bus plan Tory waffled on), and that DRL won't be built tomorrow. Unless you disagree with that.

You really don't see how spending billions on a Sheppard subway and putting Eglinton completely underground might affect the DRL, as well as other projects? That $15 billion will only go so far.

Yeah, it passed 24-19 right before his crack scandal. Even if he wins again, he'll never have as much influence on Council as he did then. Now he's losing votes 36-2.

So it will be the Sheppard Subway or nothing then. Not the end of the world, we'll what decision city council makes. And those end of term votes mean nothing.

 

[ehlow]

Tory supporters accuse Chow of not supporting the DRL.
Chow supporters accuse Tory of wanting to cancel the Sheppard & Finch LRTs.

Both accusations were shown to be false.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Tory supporters accuse Chow of not supporting the DRL.
Chow supporters accuse Tory of wanting to cancel the Sheppard & Finch LRTs.\

I don't think it's a fair comparison.

So many times people have asked Tory if he supported the LRT's, and he beat around the bush.

Then Mr. Tory released his SmartTrack plan, omitting Sheppard and Finch from the map.

Then Mr. Tory said something along the line of "we need to have a discussion about what to do on transit on Eglinton and Finch". That indicates that he wants to scrap or at least heavily modify the plans for rapid transit on Sheppard and Finch. Why else would there be a need for discussion about transit on Sheppard and Finch when the lines are already funded and approved? Quit talking and get building.

So don't pretend that the accusations of Tory wanting to cancel Sheppard and Finch were unjust. Tory wanted people to think he wanted to cancel them without actually committing to anything. Tory brought this upon himself

 

[ehlow]

I don't think it's a fair comparison.

So many times people have asked Tory if he supported the LRT's, and he beat around the bush.

Then Mr. Tory released his SmartTrack plan, omitting Sheppard and Finch from the map.

Then Mr. Tory said something along the line of "we need to have a discussion about what to do on transit on Eglinton and Finch". That indicates that he wants to scrap or at least heavily modify the plans for rapid transit on Sheppard and Finch. Why else would there be a need for discussion about transit on Sheppard and Finch when the lines are already funded and approved? Quit talking and get building.

So don't pretend that the accusations of Tory wanting to cancel Sheppard and Finch were unjust. Tory wanted people to think he wanted to cancel them without actually committing to anything. Tory brought this upon himself

Yeah but he has now clearly stated that he would not cancel them, and people still say he will.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't blame them. Tory flopped from indicating that he'd scrap the LRT to claiming that he supports them. He also flopped from 100% supporting the Relief Line to saying that we dont need it anymore. He flopped again when he went from saying (lying) that he'd have the Scarborough subway under construction with a year and then saying that it would be impossible.

throughout this campaign Tory has demonstrated that him and his word cannot be trusted. He will flip flop on issues and fabricate facts whenever it is convenient for him. The man a spineless coward, too afraid to run on a campaign based on his genuine values, that will do anything to win. Even the Ford's aren't that low; at least they have the courage to be genuine.

Quite frankly anyone who takes Tory's word on this, or any other issue is being incredibly foolish.

 

[ehlow]

I don't blame them. Tory flopped from indicating that he'd scrap the LRT to claiming that he supports them. He also flopped from 100% supporting the Relief Line to saying that we dont need it anymore. He flopped again when he went from saying (lying) that he'd have the Scarborough subway under construction with a year and then saying that it would be impossible.

throughout this campaign Tory has demonstrated that him and his word cannot be trusted. He will flip flop on issues and fabricate facts whenever it is convenient for him. The man a spineless coward, too afraid to run on a campaign based on his genuine values, that will do anything to win. Even the Ford's aren't that low; at least they have the courage to be genuine.

Quite frankly anyone who takes Tory's word on this, or any other issue is being incredibly foolish.

I knew the next response would be that even if he said very clearly he would not cancel the LRTs, he is lying or shouldn't be trusted.

I've seen Tory's people use the same strategy against Chow. First say that she doesn't support DRL. Then when she clearly say she does say something like "oh NOW you support it you flip flopper, why should we believe you".

Tory never claimed he would cancel the LRTs, and Tory has clearly stated he will not cancel them. These are facts. Leaving them out of the smart track map or saying they are "part of the discussion" is not the same as saying that he would cancel them. He clearly stated he will not. Believe him or not, he is the one creating his own positions.

Anyways, to be honest I'm sick of this game different sides making claims about the other sides positions.

The fact that he clearly stated his position now and you still won't believe that he won't cancel the LRTs, is to be honest pretty ridiculous to me.

Each side accuses the other of lying and flip flopping when they don't fit their framing, I've seen this script a million times.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I knew the next response would be that even if he said very clearly he would not cancel the LRTs, he is lying or shouldn't be trusted.

I've seen Tory's people use the same strategy against Chow. First say that she doesn't support DRL. Then when she clearly say she does say something like "oh NOW you support it you flip flopper, why should we believe you".

Tory never claimed he would cancel the LRTs, and Tory has clearly stated he will not cancel them. These are facts. Leaving them out of the smart track map or saying they are "part of the discussion" is not the same as saying that he would cancel them. He clearly stated he will not. Believe him or not, he is the one creating his own positions.

Anyways, to be honest I'm sick of this game different sides making claims about the other sides positions.

The fact that he clearly stated his position now and you still won't believe that he won't cancel the LRTs, is to be honest pretty ridiculous to me.

Each side accuses the other of lying and flip flopping when they don't fit their framing, I've seen this script a million times.

ehlow will you be going to the metrolinx meeting next friday?

 

[ehlow]

ehlow will you be going to the metrolinx meeting next friday?

Probably not if it's during the day, I work.. Plus I'd probably rather read summaries than sit through the meeting.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I knew the next response would be that even if he said very clearly he would not cancel the LRTs, he is lying or shouldn't be trusted.

Why would you trust him? This is the same man who went from being 100% insistent that the Relief Line be built to suddenly deciding that we don't need it anymore. This is the same man that went from saying that he'd have the subway under contraction within a year, to suddenly discovering that it isn't impossible? Now you mean to tell me that you are just going to take Tory's word on this issue? Come on.

Tory never claimed he would cancel the LRTs, and Tory has clearly stated he will not cancel them. These are facts. Leaving them out of the smart track map... is not the same as saying that he would cancel them.

I agree that it's not the same as explicitly saying it. But how can you deny that it is the impression Tory wanted to leave. What is someone supposed to think when they look at a map of Tory's transit plan, and see two of the three LRT lines missing? Why would he omit Sheppard and Finch and not Eglinton or Line 2? Nobody seems to be able to explain that. Clearly he wanted people to think he wanted to cancel them. Tory isn't an idiot, he fully knew what game he was playing with us.

Leaving them out of the smart track map or saying they are "part of the discussion"... is not the same as saying that he would cancel them.

What else do you think "part of the discussion" is supposed to mean? These lines are approved, funded and ready for construction. There is nothing to discuss about them. Period. Unless you wanted to get in the way of their progress. If Tory truly supported these line all he'd have to do as mayor is sit back, keep quiet and not do a thing. That "part of the discussion" line is designed to make anti-LRT people think he's against SELRT & FWLRT. It's incredibly disingenuous.

The fact that he clearly stated his position now and you still won't believe that he won't cancel the LRTs, is to be honest pretty ridiculous to me.

No, I don't think it's ridiculous at all. There are only so many times I will be lied to before I doubt everything he says.

Each side accuses the other of lying and flip flopping when they don't fit their framing, I've seen this script a million times.

Mind that I originally was on Tory's side. I suppose I just have a really low tolerance for liars.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Probably not if it's during the day, I work.. Plus I'd probably rather read summaries than sit through the meeting.

I'm going. I'll let you know what happened. It's from 9-12.

 

[ehlow]

Why would you trust him? This is the same man who went from being 100% insistent that the Relief Line be built to suddenly deciding that we don't need it anymore. This is the same man that went from saying that he'd have the subway under contraction within a year, to suddenly discovering that it isn't impossible? Now you mean to tell me that you are just going to take Tory's word on this issue? Come on.



I agree that it's not the same as explicitly saying it. But how can you deny that it is the impression Tory wanted to leave. What is someone supposed to think when they look at a map of Tory's transit plan, and see two of the three LRT lines missing? Why would he omit Sheppard and Finch and not Eglinton or Line 2? Nobody seems to be able to explain that. Clearly he wanted people to think he wanted to cancel them. Tory isn't an idiot, he fully knew what game he was playing with us.



What else do you think "part of the discussion" is supposed to mean? These lines are approved, funded and ready for construction. There is nothing to discuss about them. Period. Unless you wanted to get in the way of their progress. If Tory truly supported these line all he'd have to do as mayor is sit back, keep quiet and not do a thing. That "part of the discussion" line is designed to make anti-LRT people think he's against SELRT & FWLRT. It's incredibly disingenuous.



No, I don't think it's ridiculous at all. There are only so many times I will be lied to before I doubt everything he says.



Mind that I originally was on Tory's side. I suppose I just have a really low tolerance for liars.

I'm not going to defend Tory, and I'm not a Tory supporter, so I don't have to. He clearly "pivoted" (as they say in tech start ups) "flip flopped" or "lied", when someone on his campaign came up with the "smart track" idea. He was probably originally going to go with the normal DRL subway as his main campaign transit project.

He clearly does want anti-LRT people to vote for him. He won't defend LRT and is clearly uncomfortable voicing any support for them.

OK, so because he lied on the DRL, everything he says is a lie then. What if he said he would cancel the LRTs, would that be a lie? It's opposite day, say the opposite of what you mean! That must mean he won't build smart track, and that he DOES support the DRL subway, since he's lying about that too.

He is a politician with people on his campaign who have decided LRT is a political loser, so he won't mention it or defend it. In any future debates, if anybody brings up Sheppard or Finch, he'll immediately change the subject to smart track as we've seen already.

But I don't believe he would actively try to cancel it. Why would he? What has he got to gain by doing that?

 

[ehlow]

I'm going. I'll let you know what happened. It's from 9-12.

Thanks bro!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

OK, so because he lied on the DRL, everything he says is a lie then. What if he said he would cancel the LRTs, would that be a lie? It's opposite day, say the opposite of what you mean! That must mean he won't build smart track, and that he DOES support the DRL subway, since he's lying about that too.

I honestly don't think Tory intends to build SmartTrack. The thing is politically infeasible and has no legitimate funding model. SmartTrack is designed to win him an election and fail shortly thereafter.

He clearly does want anti-LRT people to vote for him. He won't defend LRT and is clearly uncomfortable voicing any support for them.
...
He is a politician with people on his campaign who have decided LRT is a political loser, so he won't mention it or defend it. In any future debates, if anybody brings up Sheppard or Finch, he'll immediately change the subject to smart track as we've seen already.

Okay, so either way he's lying to/misleading voters regarding the LRT issue. He's trying to be everything to everyone while hiding his true intentions.

But I don't believe he would actively try to cancel it. Why would he? What has he got to gain by doing that?

The only reason I see is to fund SmartTrack and the Scarborough Subway