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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

1) The main advantage of John Tory is that he will build the Scarborough subway extension and will not reopen this matter.

If Chow wins, and cancels this extension, it will become much for difficult for her or for future mayors to raise extra money for transit; including for DRL.

2) Tory's SmartTrack plan is half-cooked indeed (maybe, even less than half), but it does not outright "fail the sniff test". A detailed study is needed.

3) Chow's victory is, in theory, more positive for DRL, Finch LRT, and Sheppard LRT. But the difference is not big. Finch and Sheppard LRT should happen with either Chow or Tory, those are provincial projects and do not require the mayor's push. Regarding DRL, Tory moved away from it, but Chow's is not promising any real progress during her first term, either. Tory might still come back to DRL if the SmartTrack study shows that the latter cannot replace DRL.
 
Rainforest said:
1) The main advantage of John Tory is that he will build the Scarborough subway extension and will not reopen this matter.
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How will Tory build this without council support? How will Chow cancel this without council support?

Neither candidate thrills me. Hopefully someone more centrist appears.
 
rbt said:
There's nothing wrong with SmartTrack, if he was running for Premier.

I prefer my mayor make promises that the mayor has authority over and has a small possibility of keeping. If he promised to help lower GO fares in Toronto by working with Metrolinx/funding it, then sure.

SmartTrack is very similar to occasional promise to build service using Hydro Corridors. Metrolinx isn't going to donate land to the TTC any more than HydroOne is.

That said, Tory accomplishing very little over 8 years (mayors get 2 terms unless they're really bad) is still far better than the Ford. It's still amazing that we don't have a front-runner candidate who actually takes transit seriously.
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Lack of motivation in the city.
 
RogerB said:
- I don't understand the irrational hatred of Tory's SmatTrack plan which promises a one-seat rapid transit ride from Mississauga all the way to eastern Markham on one TTC fare in favour of Chow's mediocre plan which just promises to reinstate bus frequency to pre-2010 levels and little else -

Campaign transit plans
John Tory (expensive for city, relies on taxes and debt backed TIF)
SmartTrack -(duplicates much of RER, except expensive Richview corridor section)
Scarborough subway extension
Sheppard LRT and Finch LRT (not on Tory transit map. Tory previously said, once elected he would push the Province to delay them, but now says that, while they are not his priorities, he would not interfere with them)
DRL - Maybe one day, but not a priority. SmartTrack is 'Yonge Relief'. Wrong line at wrong time, counterproductive.
RER - supports it after subway and SmartTrack
Express buses to Liberty Village and eventually to SmartTrack (RER) stations.

Olivia Chow (lowers city expenses on Provincial projects, chooses studied or approved projects)
Scarborough LRT
Sheppard LRT
Finch LRT
RER (Provincial, supports not interfering)
DRL (Provincial, will fight for it but can not promise it until funding & time frame decided)
More buses & streetcars ASAP

Tory promises - how can Tory, as a Toronto candidate, 'promise' a bargain price on a Provincially owned & operated GO line? Be skeptical of improbable campaign promises.
As many articles have pointed out, SmartTrick fails the sniff test on price, funding, route, timing, and Yonge relief. Why would the Province want to go back to the drawing board, to rebrand RER around an $8 billion (Tory estimate) unstudied campaign plank?
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Welcome to UrbanToronto Roger. :)
 
-If Chow wins, and cancels this extension, it will become much for difficult for her or for future mayors to raise extra money for transit; including for DRL.-
Toronto has only so many billions lying around. If Toronto puts itself on the hook for 30 years of property tax hikes (which still doesn't cover city's share), in order to build huge capacity, where it is unneeded, it will have less financial leverage to add capacity where it is desperately needed.
Tory's vote buying plan, adds another $2.5 billion (his estimate) in debt, in order to alter Provincial RER plans, by taking the line west along the formerly vacant Richview corridor. The debt and TIF role, would require changes to Provincial legislation, and can only be considered 'financially responsible' in the wake of a Ford mayoralty.
- Chow's is not promising any real progress during her first term
If we vote for unrealistic promises, we are rewarding politicians who lie.
-Tory promised quick progress and then switched Track.
The truth is that a project this costly needs to be funded by higher levels of government. The city can cheerlead, it can offer money & persuasion, but the Province is likely to propose the timeline. Even if a Toronto politician were to tell you otherwise, complex subways require a time consuming EA, procurement contracts, maybe even an AFP. I would not expect to see any real construction progress in the next 4 years on it or any other unapproved subway.
 
RogerB said:
-If Chow wins, and cancels this extension, it will become much for difficult for her or for future mayors to raise extra money for transit; including for DRL.-
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In what way? It's a simple tax increase. How does cancelling this tax increase stop future ones? The province has already signed a contract that their share of the money goes to the LRT. The Feds have only ever contributed relatively small amounts to transit compared to the province.

RogerB said:
Toronto has only so many billions lying around. If Toronto puts itself on the hook for 30 years of property tax hikes (which still doesn't cover city's share), in order to build huge capacity, where it is unneeded, it will have less financial leverage to add capacity where it is desperately needed.
Tory's vote buying plan, adds another $2.5 billion (his estimate) in debt, in order to alter Provincial RER plans, by taking the line west along the formerly vacant Richview corridor. The debt and TIF role, would require changes to Provincial legislation, and can only be considered 'financially responsible' in the wake of a Ford mayoralty.
Click to expand...
Where does Toronto have any bilions lying around?
 
-

- If Chow wins, and cancels this extension, it will become much for difficult for her or for future mayors to raise extra money for transit; including for DRL.-
- In what way?

I responded to that quote, but don't agree with it.

- Where does Toronto have any bilions lying around?
Good question - we don't..
unless like Tory you claim that downtown developers are an untapped revenue source that can be monetized for a conservative $2.5 billion (plus debt interest), or like Ford you claim developers are waiting with cheque in hand - “a minimum of $1 billion... as much as $2 billion" to hand over if we just start digging. You can find similar TIF claims by Lastman, Guiliani and numerous other optimistic politicians.
 
RogerB said:
-

- If Chow wins, and cancels this extension, it will become much for difficult for her or for future mayors to raise extra money for transit; including for DRL.-
- In what way?

I responded to that quote, but don't agree with it.

- Where does Toronto have any bilions lying around?
Good question - we don't..
unless like Tory you claim that downtown developers are an untapped revenue source that can be monetized for a conservative $2.5 billion (plus debt interest), or like Ford you claim developers are waiting with cheque in hand - “a minimum of $1 billion... as much as $2 billion" to hand over if we just start digging. You can find similar TIF claims by Lastman, Guiliani and numerous other optimistic politicians.
Click to expand...

Welcome new user, might I suggest getting familiar with how to use the HTML commands/buttons to separate what you are saying from what you are responding to? I am sure you have much to contribute but it is very difficult to follow the way you are doing it just now.
 
TOareaFan said:
Welcome new user, might I suggest getting familiar with how to use the HTML commands/buttons to separate what you are saying from what you are responding to? I am sure you have much to contribute but it is very difficult to follow the way you are doing it just now.
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Roger8, I do not know what HTML means :)D), but the key is to use those icons just above where you are typing. Click "Reply with quote" and the quote will appear separate from your comment. Also, use the "Preview Post" (may need "Go Advanced") before actually posting.
 
quote feature

BurlOak said:
Roger8, I do not know what HTML means :)D), but the key is to use those icons just above where you are typing. Click "Reply with quote" and the quote will appear separate from your comment. Also, use the "Preview Post" (may need "Go Advanced") before actually posting.
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Thanks, all. The letters and numbers look like mumbo jumbo, even in preview, however it is a simple and very useful feature so I won't look like I'm arguing with myself.
 
Thank you everyone for giving RogerB some tips on quoting.

Roger, just know this: if you need to split up quoted sections to insert responses, you just have to type the following for closing a quote: [/quote], and this for opening a quote:
42
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