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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

I'm currently in the weird position where I'd actually be more comfortable voting for John Tory if I knew he was lying to the electorate as opposed to him being genuine on the transit front.

Maybe that is what he wants.
 
What's ridiculous is that you're asking this as if you have not been pro Tory for most of the summer. Chow has mentioned many times the DRL needs to built now, it was in her map. She has also said she want to improve commutes now using the buses (the same bus plan Tory waffled on), and that DRL won't be built tomorrow. Unless you disagree with that.
If I'm pro-Tory, it's in the sense that he's been ahead of Ford in the polls all summer. Someone needs to be because the alternative is a lot worse.

Chow's 15-year goalpost just doesn't appeal to me. Neither does Tory's switch-er-oo. Maybe the province will "impose" the DRL on us no matter who wins, but I expected better from Chow and Tory.

The irony is that the only candidates attaching any urgency to the DRL are Soknacki and Ford. One can't win, and the other needs to be sent packing.

So it will be the Sheppard Subway or nothing then. Not the end of the world, we'll what decision city council makes. And those end of term votes mean nothing.
The LRT isn't necessarily dead under a re-elected Ford if the province and council are still behind it. It already won one vote with him as mayor.

ALL votes mean something. That's why they have them.
 
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Given that Tory is increasingly looking like he will win, I am hoping that Smarttrack simply results in the improvement of fare integration on the inner city portions of GO RER and that we can then move on as normal.

I also hope that council approves the TTC bus service improvements anyway, against his wishes.
 
Tory supporters accuse Chow of not supporting the DRL.
Chow supporters accuse Tory of wanting to cancel the Sheppard & Finch LRTs.

Both accusations were shown to be false.

It seems interesting that the #1 issue in Toronto is Transit.
Torontonians prefer the subway.
Chow and Tory continue to argue about LRT and are seen as tepid in their support for subways.

People are not supporting Ford because he uses drugs, or because he is grossly overweight. They see him as the only one consistent on their #1 issue.
 
Given that Tory is increasingly looking like he will win, I am hoping that Smarttrack simply results in the improvement of fare integration on the inner city portions of GO RER and that we can then move on as normal.

I also hope that council approves the TTC bus service improvements anyway, against his wishes.

Unless Chow's numbers pick up, I suspect we'll see a surge in Tory support as the people who or soft Chow supporters will flock to Tory just to prevent Rob Ford from winning. If the poll numbers swing the opposite way with Chow moving into first, I suspect we'd see the soft Tory supporters move over to Chow. Basically, whoever is winning will get the substantial percentage of the big pool of "I want anybody but Rob Ford" voters. It's highly unlikely that that pool will split evenly between Tory and Chow. Whoever has the lead in the polls in the days leading up to the election will get the bulk of that pool.
 
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If I'm pro-Tory, it's in the sense that he's been ahead of Ford in the polls all summer. Someone needs to be because the alternative is a lot worse.

Chow's 15-year goalpost just doesn't appeal to me. Neither does Tory's switch-er-oo. Maybe the province will "impose" the DRL on us no matter who wins, but I expected better from Chow and Tory.

The irony is that the only candidates attaching any urgency to the DRL are Soknacki and Ford. One can't win, and the other needs to be sent packing.
SmartTrack is great idea and will have more capacity then the DRL just for the fact it will be a train. It's also a ghost plan on top of the GO electrification plan; it will be built regardless, and gives tory an easy accomplishment. Chow's campaign has been awful and you won't get an argument from me on that. But you have been piling on her forever about the DRL when she has said it was a priority for her.

The LRT isn't necessarily dead under a re-elected Ford if the province and council are still behind it. It already won one vote with him as mayor.

ALL votes mean something. That's why they have them.
It comes down to this: yes it's dead if Ford gets it, why would the province pick a fight? They can also build nothing on Sheppard as well, so a subway is not a fait accompli, i'll give you that. But it's not if Tory or Chow gets in, and it becomes a majority priority if Chow gets in, which would require her to start being serious about will this damn election. And you are the only that cares about a 36-2 vote or 39-3 vote over whether some tree on Kipling Ave gets cut down to size. This is just him thumbing his nose at city council; this is so much legitimate stuff to get Ford on so I don't know why care about or would bring this up.
 
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It seems interesting that the #1 issue in Toronto is Transit.
Torontonians prefer the subway.
Chow and Tory continue to argue about LRT and are seen as tepid in their support for subways.

People are not supporting Ford because he uses drugs, or because he is grossly overweight. They see him as the only one consistent on their #1 issue.
While we might disagree, Toronto will have missed an opportunity to be a leader if the LRT's don't get built It will be unfortunate to say cities like Denver, Salt Lake, Calgary and Phoenix are more progressive in transit.
 
Yet another article absolutely demolishing Tory's "fraudulent" SmartTrack plan, this time from Toronto Star. I like this. The media needs to continue pressuring Tory on his infeasible SmartTrack plan. The people need to know how much of a lie SmartTrack is before they base their voting decision on this rather pathetic excuse for a transit plan.

John Tory’s SmartTrack doesn’t live up to its name

The worst thing about this municipal election campaign is that it’s all about Rob Ford. The second worst thing is that it’s all about transit — meaning that the price of escaping another four years of Ford could well be John Tory as mayor derailing the entire city by actually trying to implement his high-handed, half-baked, financially fraudulent SmartTrack gambit.

In either case, the credit for victory would be Ford’s. Only a city conditioned to believe anything — whose politicians are accordingly willing to say anything — could embrace a contraption like SmartTrack as uncritically as Toronto appears to be doing.

Olivia Chow misfired badly with a sensible transit policy broadly in line with the recommendations of TTC officials: more buses, better service. But Tory has learned the lesson of Fordism well — and SmartTrack is the result.

Before he felt a need to win election at any cost — ours, ultimately — Tory was as sensible as Chow, emphasizing in one pre-campaign speech that “transit plans without money are almost worse than no transit plans at all, because they create nothing but false hopes.”

Accordingly, he entered the race with sensible ideas about transit. But he only took flight once he ditched that policy and cynically embraced the power of false hope.

Continue reading on the Toronto Star.

Before he felt a need to win election at any cost — ours, ultimately — Tory was as sensible as Chow, emphasizing in one pre-campaign speech that “transit plans without money are almost worse than no transit plans at all, because they create nothing but false hopes.”

Thanks for giving million of Torontonians false hopes Mr. Tory.
 
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I don't understand the irrational hatred of Tory's SmatTrack plan which promises a one-seat rapid transit ride from Mississauga all the way to eastern Markham on one TTC fare in favour of Chow's mediocre plan which just promises to reinstate bus frequency to pre-2010 levels and little else. Talk about not seeing the big picture. Or has it been lost on some people here that Tory's plan totally still leaves open the likelihood of a future DRL underneath King/Queen? Is two new subways through downtown not more useful than one?
 
I don't understand the irrational hatred of Tory's SmatTrack plan which promises a one-seat rapid transit ride from Mississauga all the way to eastern Markham on one TTC fare in favour of Chow's mediocre plan which just promises to reinstate bus frequency to pre-2010 levels and little else. Talk about not seeing the big picture. Or has it been lost on some people here that Tory's plan totally still leaves open the likelihood of a future DRL underneath King/Queen? Is two new subways through downtown not more useful than one?

It seems that collectively, we want a 3 way race for mayor. Tory is ahead, so whoever is opposed to it is getting all the press right now. All it will do is add support to Ford and make him a viable candidate into October.
 
I don't understand the irrational hatred of Tory's SmatTrack plan which promises a one-seat rapid transit ride from Mississauga all the way to eastern Markham on one TTC fare in favour of Chow's mediocre plan which just promises to reinstate bus frequency to pre-2010 levels and little else. Talk about not seeing the big picture. Or has it been lost on some people here that Tory's plan totally still leaves open the likelihood of a future DRL underneath King/Queen? Is two new subways through downtown not more useful than one?

There's nothing wrong with SmartTrack, if he was running for Premier.

I prefer my mayor make promises that the mayor has authority over and has a small possibility of keeping. If he promised to help lower GO fares in Toronto by working with Metrolinx/funding it, then sure.

SmartTrack is very similar to occasional promise to build service using Hydro Corridors. Metrolinx isn't going to donate land to the TTC any more than HydroOne is.

That said, Tory accomplishing very little over 8 years (mayors get 2 terms unless they're really bad) is still far better than the Ford. It's still amazing that we don't have a front-runner candidate who actually takes transit seriously.
 
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- I don't understand the irrational hatred of Tory's SmatTrack plan which promises a one-seat rapid transit ride from Mississauga all the way to eastern Markham on one TTC fare in favour of Chow's mediocre plan which just promises to reinstate bus frequency to pre-2010 levels and little else -

Campaign transit plans
John Tory (expensive for city, relies on taxes and debt backed TIF)
SmartTrack -(duplicates much of RER, except expensive Richview corridor section)
Scarborough subway extension
Sheppard LRT and Finch LRT (not on Tory transit map. Tory previously said, once elected he would push the Province to delay them, but now says that, while they are not his priorities, he would not interfere with them)
DRL - Maybe one day, but not a priority. SmartTrack is 'Yonge Relief'. Wrong line at wrong time, counterproductive.
RER - supports it after subway and SmartTrack
Express buses to Liberty Village and eventually to SmartTrack (RER) stations.

Olivia Chow (lowers city expenses on Provincial projects, chooses studied or approved projects)
Scarborough LRT
Sheppard LRT
Finch LRT
RER (Provincial, supports not interfering)
DRL (Provincial, will fight for it but can not promise it until funding & time frame decided)
More buses & streetcars ASAP

Tory promises - how can Tory, as a Toronto candidate, 'promise' a bargain price on a Provincially owned & operated GO line? Be skeptical of improbable campaign promises.
As many articles have pointed out, SmartTrick fails the sniff test on price, funding, route, timing, and Yonge relief. Why would the Province want to go back to the drawing board, to rebrand RER around an $8 billion (Tory estimate) unstudied campaign plank?
 
I don't understand the irrational hatred of Tory's SmatTrack plan which promises a one-seat rapid transit ride from Mississauga all the way to eastern Markham on one TTC fare in favour of Chow's mediocre plan which just promises to reinstate bus frequency to pre-2010 levels and little else.
Because there are so many things wrong with Tory's plan.

Mostly that the provincial government has already promised to build it, or something very close. Lines from Markham to Mississauga should be provincial, and John Tory shouldn't be blowing the city's limited resources on provincial projects that have already been promised.

At the same time, it's quite clear that the plan wouldn't actually alleviate congestion on the Yonge line - which is why the province has promised both this AND a downtown relief line. Tory is just promising this. It's a massive fail, and does little to alleviate the existing subway congestion.

The Chow promise you refer to is for operations, not capital construction. She's also supported the new LRT lines that Tory keeps waffling about (perhaps he too supports them this week). And she supports the downtown relief line. Given that the promise has already promised something similar to SmatTrack, presumably we get that too under Chow.

Talk about not seeing the big picture.
Tell me about it. Tory seems to be campaigning for Premier of the GTA, not mayor of Toronto. Though we've seen other examples of his astounding lack of judgement before, such as his promise to fund religious schools for all religions, and his support of wife-beating racist Rob Ford in the last election. How can one consider supporting a man with such poor judgement?

Or has it been lost on some people here that Tory's plan totally still leaves open the likelihood of a future DRL underneath King/Queen? Is two new subways through downtown not more useful than one?
SmartTrack isn't a subway - has that been lost on some people?
 
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