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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 205 71.2%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 13 4.5%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 31 10.8%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 5.9%
  • Total voters
    288
BurlOak said:
Don't know - maybe refering to the fantasy map created by Gweed123 a good number of years ago.

drl_de-coupling-jpg.20582
Click to expand...
That's a flashback, haha! Unfortunately this option would require a Front St DRL alignment, which is pretty much off the table now.
 
rbt said:
Of course. The triple whopper exists on the menu, despite very low sales (under 1%) to make the double whopper more appealing price wise.

I think adrianaliu's point was to make expanding the loop the 2nd most expensive option in the same way the 1-stop subway in Scarborough is the result of a compromise from a crazy expensive option (for the benefit) to a still very expensive option. A $2B University line extension might make a $500M loop expansion look good.
Click to expand...

Here's your $2 billion option, haha. (Unfinished map)

TTC_Interlined.jpg


Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bun3eqb590fd9o0/TTC_Interlined.jpg?dl=0 (not sure why the image isn't working)
 
The map just upthread is dead now anyway given the new tower opposite ACC. Stub ending Line 1 would likely reduce headways not to mention screw over connections (and eliminate the option of going round the horn to St George when Yonge trains are packed in the PM rush). Also: no connection to Line 2 or Wilson so big hit on yard capacity and resilency. No thanks.
 
dowlingm said:
The map just upthread is dead now anyway given the new tower opposite ACC. Stub ending Line 1 would likely reduce headways not to mention screw over connections (and eliminate the option of going round the horn to St George when Yonge trains are packed in the PM rush). Also: no connection to Line 2 or Wilson so big hit on yard capacity and resilency. No thanks.
Click to expand...
I’m talking about this:
20150324-MC-Map.jpg
 
Somewhat of a crazy notion: If a King pilot-like configuration is extended to include all of King West (all the way to Roncesvalles), is the LRT connector along Lake Shore connecting to Dufferin Loop even needed? Streetcars could just as easily be run along the Queensway to Roncesvalles, then east on King, then south on Dufferin, connecting to the QQW/Ex line there. This would obviously still need to Ex-Dufferin connector piece, but that's a fraction of the price of the Lake Shore piece.

Personally, I'd rather see that option implemented, with the funds for the Lake Shore piece going to QQE, since there's no real streetcar alternative there. I know in a perfect world we'd like to have funding for both, but hey, this is TO Council we're talking about here. Any talk of LRT corridors south of Bloor will likely result in some sort of horse trading with Scarborough winding up with a Maglev.
 
gweed123 said:
Somewhat of a crazy notion: If a King pilot-like configuration is extended to include all of King West (all the way to Roncesvalles), is the LRT connector along Lake Shore connecting to Dufferin Loop even needed? Streetcars could just as easily be run along the Queensway to Roncesvalles, then east on King, then south on Dufferin, connecting to the QQW/Ex line there. This would obviously still need to Ex-Dufferin connector piece, but that's a fraction of the price of the Lake Shore piece.

Personally, I'd rather see that option implemented, with the funds for the Lake Shore piece going to QQE, since there's no real streetcar alternative there. I know in a perfect world we'd like to have funding for both, but hey, this is TO Council we're talking about here. Any talk of LRT corridors south of Bloor will likely result in some sort of horse trading with Scarborough winding up with a Maglev.
Click to expand...

Yea I've been thinking this. I don't understand who the Lakeshore alignment east of Humber would be serving that the Queensway/King Streetcar couldn't serve better?
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
That would be the ideal solution. But with the work that was just finished with expanding Union (TTC) station, I think there's little appetite to go back in.
Click to expand...
UT has a thread for "fantasy transit maps" and this discussion would seem to be better there. See: https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/transit-fantasy-maps.3005/page-320 If the existing Line 1 loop did not go through Union it MIGHT be a good idea to get it further south but we are LONG past that.
 
BMO said:
Yea I've been thinking this. I don't understand who the Lakeshore alignment east of Humber would be serving that the Queensway/King Streetcar couldn't serve better?
Click to expand...

It would certainly be faster than the status quo King West, but a ROW King West? Maybe marginally faster due to fewer traffic lights. Probably not worth the price tag when you consider other improvements that could be done with the same money (QQE for example). I put this in the same category as an extension of the Sheppard Subway to Victoria Park or Sheppard West: a nice to have, but nowhere near a priority for the city.
 
gweed123 said:
Somewhat of a crazy notion: If a King pilot-like configuration is extended to include all of King West (all the way to Roncesvalles), is the LRT connector along Lake Shore connecting to Dufferin Loop even needed? Streetcars could just as easily be run along the Queensway to Roncesvalles, then east on King, then south on Dufferin, connecting to the QQW/Ex line there. This would obviously still need to Ex-Dufferin connector piece, but that's a fraction of the price of the Lake Shore piece.
Click to expand...

I asked that very question at the PIC and was told, we need both for capacity reasons. TTC believes King can't carry it all - Roncy/Queen is a pretty problemmatic intersection, and the ridership is there to justify spending the money.

What's a bit harder to fathom is why have the jog at Colborne Lodge onto the Queensway instead of just pushing the line further west and building the new bridge over the Humber. That's just not that much additional money. I think they were trying to keep the envelope below some threshold.

- Paul
 
DSC said:
Ah yes! Transit First. Groan!
Click to expand...

This makes no sense; its also not particularly consistent w/the Waterfront Transit reset.

While the latter does not actually give a timeline beyond the next report/decision date (no later than Q1 2019, I believe)

It would be my implicit reading and private understanding from other sources that QQE will be much sooner, unless something has changed.

I'm wondering if this is the timeline for Portlands LRT, that sounds more likely to me.
 
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