Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[Momo49]

I asked that very question at the PIC and was told, we need both for capacity reasons. TTC believes King can't carry it all - Roncy/Queen is a pretty problemmatic intersection, and the ridership is there to justify spending the money.

What's a bit harder to fathom is why have the jog at Colborne Lodge onto the Queensway instead of just pushing the line further west and building the new bridge over the Humber. That's just not that much additional money. I think they were trying to keep the envelope below some threshold.

- Paul

The impact to the condo beside the Humber, the cost of a new bridge over the river, and the fact that the colborne lodge alignment lines up nicely with a chance to connect to Humber Loop hub and a potential fiture queensway Lrt service. Thats why

 

[drum118]

The impact to the condo beside the Humber, the cost of a new bridge over the river, and the fact that the colborne lodge alignment lines up nicely with a chance to connect to Humber Loop hub and a potential fiture queensway Lrt service. Thats why

As someone who has pushed the LRT 100% on the Lake Shore over the Humber, big bucks required to do it as well changing the Gardiner off ramp and the front of the condos. Its best to go with the Colborne alignment.

The Queensway LRT could loop at Humber or go on X route, but way down the pipeline.

 

[GrayLake]

With the challenges of building the waterfront west LRT, the solution for waterfront transit seems pretty obvious to me:

1. Electrify lake shore west GO
2. Build GO stations at Sunnyside loop and/or Humber loop
3. Extend streetcar on Queensway west of Humber loop (possible ROW)
4. GO & TTC fare integration

Given that step 1 and 4 are happening regardless, this seems like a no brainer. I feel that this is superior to a Park Lawn GO station because the Humber Bay Shores area is actually quite large and it is probably better to connect everyone to the GO via the lake shore streetcar at Humber or Sunnyside. The streetcar west of Sunnyside should be fast and efficient already. The added benefit is to also provide service to the Queensway residents west of Humber. The new GO station(s) should be less expensive than rebuilding the Union station loop.

The streetcar lines should be broken at Sunnyside to increase reliability on both sides, with the expectation that a lot of people will transfer to GO anyway.

The future DRL can also connect at Sunnyside, improving the system even further.

 

[Jeff Morgan]

At the TTC "Strategy Day" meeting today at City Hall it was confirmed that Waterfront Transit Network won't be done until 2033-2037. The "won't be done" phrase is interesting. Does this imply that portions of the network will be completed before those dates? If so, does anybody have a more detailed breakdown?

 

[DSC]

At the TTC "Strategy Day" meeting today at City Hall it was confirmed that Waterfront Transit Network won't be done until 2033-2037. The "won't be done" phrase is interesting. Does this imply that portions of the network will be completed before those dates? If so, does anybody have a more detailed breakdown?

The Waterfront Transit Network runs from Long Branch to the Port Lands. There is no doubt that some parts will be finished before others. The City are working actively on the Queens Quay East section (including the complex and costly Union Station connection) and the extension west of Exhibition to Roncesvalles area.

 

[crs1026]

The timing was stressed in the Public Consultation that I attended. The likelihood of the portion west of Dufferin not happening for another decade or more certainly argues for the Park Lawn RER stop to happen sooner.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Waterfront Transit Network runs from Long Branch to the Port Lands. There is no doubt that some parts will be finished before others. The City are working actively on the Queens Quay East section (including the complex and costly Union Station connection) and the extension west of Exhibition to Roncesvalles area.

They should put in the streetcar right-of-way now, between the Humber Loop and Legion Road (Park Lawn). It would be the easiest one to do.

 

[drum118]

They should put in the streetcar right-of-way now, between the Humber Loop and Legion Road (Park Lawn). It would be the easiest one to do.

Considering TTC is rebuilding the tracks there now, but not finish until Feb.

You forget that that to put in the new standard platforms, you need to buy land so the existing road can be widen for the ROW as well the new platforms. It not in TTC budget nor the city at this time. It will require an EA to do this. Then there is the issue with the Kraft site as where roads will connect to the ROW so traffic can go eastbound and that plan is years down the road at this time. A few years down the road for the ROW.

Fully support the ROW in this area, but will piss of the car folks since they will only have one lane, not the current 2 to use. It will backup traffic somewhat, but so what.

 

[Amare]

At the TTC "Strategy Day" meeting today at City Hall it was confirmed that Waterfront Transit Network won't be done until 2033-2037. The "won't be done" phrase is interesting. Does this imply that portions of the network will be completed before those dates? If so, does anybody have a more detailed breakdown?

What a sick joke. Can this city do anything right when it comes to transit? So essentially they'll start waterfront transit improvements once every development on the waterfront is complete (including Sidewalk Labs).

This is completely asinine and pathetic. The fact that city cant find ~$1-2 billion within the next 10 years to complete this is laughable. It really shouldnt even take up to 10 years, but this is Toronto we're talking about so things are delayed even more than what normal timelines should be.

 

[narduch]

To be fair Kathleen Wynne cut off Tory's legs when he wanted to use tolls to raise additional revenues.

 

[Amare]

To be fair Kathleen Wynne cut off Tory's legs when he wanted to use tolls to raise additional revenues.

He should push for it again. Let's do some math here: tolls would raise $200-300 million annually so in 5 years you would have enough funds for the entire project.

The city has a revenue issue and this has been hammered on by the City Manager time and time again. There's no reason waterfront transit should take an additional 15-20 years to implement after the numerous studies which have already been conducted. Heck, the Spadina Subway Extension was completed faster than this simple (but expansive) project.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Toronto used to do that. Back in the 1911, they laid streetcar tracks along sections of Gerrard Street, through farmland or undeveloped land.

Or St. Clair Avenue and Ossington Avenue (Oakwood) around 1912. Before anything was built on the land surrounding the streetcar tracks that were being laid.

 

[CapitalSeven]

What a sick joke. Can this city do anything right when it comes to transit? So essentially they'll start waterfront transit improvements once every development on the waterfront is complete (including Sidewalk Labs).

This is completely asinine and pathetic. The fact that city cant find ~$1-2 billion within the next 10 years to complete this is laughable. It really shouldnt even take up to 10 years, but this is Toronto we're talking about so things are delayed even more than what normal timelines should be.

I have open house handouts on this project from 1992. Pretty soon Antiques Roadshow will want them.

 

[Amare]

I have open house handouts on this project from 1992. Pretty soon Antiques Roadshow will want them.

If you still have those copies lying around it would be great to see them actually. It would illustrate how much of a joke this transit file has been for the past 30 years.

Right next to the DRL, this is the worst transit planning i've ever seen.

 

[salsa]

He should push for it again. Let's do some math here: tolls would raise $200-300 million annually so in 5 years you would have enough funds for the entire project.

The city has a revenue issue and this has been hammered on by the City Manager time and time again. There's no reason waterfront transit should take an additional 15-20 years to implement after the numerous studies which have already been conducted. Heck, the Spadina Subway Extension was completed faster than this simple (but expansive) project.

I supported the road tolls, but this fallacy that some still believe...that somehow it would have funded some of our big-ticket transit projects is out of touch with reality. A reminder: the tolls were planned to kick in only after 2024. The actual projected revenue (after expenses) was around $200 million annually, which would have first went toward paying for the Gardner repairs. Not until we are well into the 2030s would these tolls have funded transit in a major way. It's time to stop kidding ourselves here and acknowledge that these tolls alone fall drastically short of fulfilling our enormous funding needs for transit. The mayor has spent his entire term in office begging for more money from Queens Park, with almost nothing to show for it. Therefore it's time that he and council start looking at other revenue tools that are available to us, and stop with their annual politically-driven point of keeping property taxes below inflation.