Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[drum118]

oof. Almost half a billion dollars ($100 million; 10-year + 300-350 million; 10+ years) is pretty steep for making a new ROW between Dufferin and Colborne Lodge. I never liked it because of the lack of connectivity at King/Queen/Roncy, but that is a STEEP price tag. The fact that the whole thing is over $1.2 billion is already testing the palate, and items like the Union platforms and QQE new ROWS are essential and unavoidable components of that price tag.

They should be proposing an interim solution to run it along the existing tracks from Dufferin Loop, along Dufferin, King and Queensway instead of this new fancy ROW that only directly serves a couple EX facilities (Liberty Grand, BioSteel Centre), four private clubs/venues and the Sunnyside Pavilion. A new ROW can be deferred, if it still makes sense. That brings the 10-year and 10+ year price tags down from $1,165-1395 to $1065-1295, and $815-915 to $515-565, respectively.

The ROW cost between Dufferin and Colborne includes a rebuild Lake Shore road with a new alignment that will see it moving north and narrowing the whole corridor.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

The ROW cost between Dufferin and Colborne includes a rebuild Lake Shore road with a new alignment that will see it moving north and narrowing the whole corridor.

Okay, that makes a little more sense. But I still think it should be packaged separately IMO.

 

[Towered]

The ROW cost between Dufferin and Colborne includes a rebuild Lake Shore road with a new alignment that will see it moving north and narrowing the whole corridor.

I was wondering what happened to that plan. Good to see that it's going to happen as it will unlock a lot more land along the waterfront. The way it's currently configured makes it a lot more unpleasant than it should be.

 

[BMO]

Other key notes:

Very clear direction to make Bathurst an exclusive ROW from Bremner to Queen's Quay, with the suggestion the new ROW match w/the south-side configuration of Queen's Quay...

Wasn't there plans to make Bathurst a dedicated ROW between Queens Quay and Queen Street once the heritage bridge south of Front Street was replaced? I believe that bridge has been tendered for replacement recently?

 

[drum118]

Wasn't there plans to make Bathurst a dedicated ROW between Queens Quay and Queen Street once the heritage bridge south of Front Street was replaced? I believe that bridge has been tendered for replacement recently?

The ROW surface officially last year for Bathurst, but there been vision of one south of King for a few years that wasn't part of any EA or study. The current ROW being call for is on the west side of Bathurst from Fort York to QQ in the curb lane and shifting the switches to Fleet. This will allow the closing of Fleet to traffic and allow the full size platforms that can't be place there today.

 

[dowlingm]

I'm not saying "go ahead and build 100 year infrastructure" given the realities of the tripartite agreement but for a significant waterfront trip generator (especially of taxis) to be fully ignored in these reports is quite something - the map stops 50m down Eireann Quay ffs!

 

[CapitalSeven]

I think the options at Union are terrible. Walk 3 minutes from the subway to the streetcar platform. Get on and ride slowly back to where you started, around the bend, and then back to where you boarded, which is a third of the way to the lake or more. One way to reduce congestion; many won't bother. Cheap-out.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I think the options at Union are terrible. Walk 3 minutes from the subway to the streetcar platform. Get on and ride slowly back to where you started, around the bend, and then back to where you boarded, which is a third of the way to the lake or more. One way to reduce congestion; many won't bother. Cheap-out.

So are you suggesting to tunnel the streetcar tunnel even lower underneath the subway platforms? That would be way more expensive and would require an entirely new loop.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The original plans for the expanded Union Station streetcar loop were much better.

But then we got the penny-pinchers hands on it looking for the "lowest bidder" of sorts. Groan.

 

[DSC]

The original plans for the expanded Union Station streetcar loop were much better.

But then we got the penny-pinchers hands on it looking for the "lowest bidder" of sorts. Groan.

The original plans did not take into account the new platform(s) that will be (or can be) built in the basement of 45 Bay (The CIBC Centre) and also made allowances for the Bremner LRT which now seems to be officially dead. I am not arguing that the loop should not be rebuilt but it will need a new plan. What is VERY sad is that these plans go back well over a decade and we are still just talking (and now even looking at a funicular.)

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

On the bright side, using the 45 Bay platforms translates into killing the funicular nonsense.

AoD

 

[Momo49]

The original plans for the expanded Union Station streetcar loop were much better.

But then we got the penny-pinchers hands on it looking for the "lowest bidder" of sorts. Groan.

This plan involves major underground expansion construction under canadas largest rail corridor and transit station, including removing and replacing major support columns, which you can see clearly on the plan. Im not a structural engineer, but from the little i know about this, the complexity and risk/liability of this is likely extremely high. What if something were to go wrong and Union station was compromised? I can see why there has been no resolution to date

 

[DSC]

On the bright side, the using the 45 Bay platforms translates into killing the funicular nonsense.

AoD

Not sure if that's true - though certainly hope it is!

 

[Jeff Morgan]

IMO somebody must be lobbying for the funicular options or it wouldn't still be considered. Does anybody know who and why? Is it simply a matter of cost?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

This plan involves major underground expansion construction under canadas largest rail corridor and transit station, including removing and replacing major support columns, which you can see clearly on the plan. Im not a structural engineer, but from the little i know about this, the complexity and risk/liability of this is likely extremely high. What if something were to go wrong and Union station was compromised? I can see why there has been no resolution to date

Not saying that's easy, but that's literally what we have done with Union Station the last few years - removing and replacing support columns - hundreds of them.

AoD