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VIA Rail

It will be interesting to see who buys them, if anyone. They are very heavy, and it's unfortunate that they've met an inglorious end, but they're rolling Albatrosses for VIA.

A tourist line might snap them up.
 
littlewill1166 said:
Questions from the Annual Public Meeting have been posted:
https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/About_VIA/our-company/annual-public-meeting/2018 ANNUAL PUBLIC MEETING-Part 1.pdf

Looks like the Renaissance fleet is going in 2021.
Click to expand...
"Q: When will Union Station finally be finished?
A: Union Station is owned by the city of Toronto which is responsible for its renovation. They have indicated that the station should be substantially completed in late fall 2018."

Famous last words. Union completion 2018, my ***.

Fall 2018, I'd love to be strolling through the Union Bay Concourse before Christmas. Shopping at the new Apple Store that opens there. But no way, no how.

(...Perhaps they meant only the VIA concourse. And not VIA's words; it was City of Toronto's word being relayed by VIA. Still, but that wasn't the question.) ;)
 
I believe late 2018 is still the official completion for the city of Toronto - who then hands it over to Metrolinx for fit out as they are the tenant, who then takes about 6 months on fit out, resulting in a mid-2019 opening. At least that is the current schedule. given the current state of the station, I would say a mid-2019 handover with late-2019 opening is more likely.
 
As I see it, there are 3 different demands when it comes to rolling stock.
1) Long distance over night - Canadian, Ocean
2) Long distance intercity - Corridor
3) Long distance rural - Sudbury - White River, Jasper – Prince Rupert, Montreal–Jonquière, Montreal–Senneterre, Winnipeg–Churchill, (Victoria - Courtenay)

For the regular passenger car, they could be used on all routes. The baggage cars also could be used on all routes. For the Canadian, there should be specialty cars like sleepers and dome cars. The real issue is the power unit. All of these routes are different lengths, which means they need different power units..

We need to invest in Canadian factories that will build rolling stock that can last 20-50 years, match our TC standards, and can bring new rolling stock to all our routes. The Renaissance cars are the newest in the fleet, and they are up for replacement? That is ridiculous when we have the Budd cars running on routes and those are from the 1950s!

I know that they are not smart enough to figure this out.
 
steveintoronto said:
It will be interesting to see who buys them, if anyone. They are very heavy, and it's unfortunate that they've met an inglorious end, but they're rolling Albatrosses for VIA.

A tourist line might snap them up.
Click to expand...

They'll probably meet the same fate their counterparts in Thunder Bay that never made it into service will (if they haven't already): scrap.

If only VIA had bought Amtrak style Viewliner Is when it had the chance. Sure, those might have been a bit more expensive, but they certainly would have lasted. I'm just curious when they're going to procure new cars for the long distance services.
 
M636RF said:
They'll probably meet the same fate their counterparts in Thunder Bay that never made it into service will (if they haven't already): scrap.

If only VIA had bought Amtrak style Viewliner Is when it had the chance. Sure, those might have been a bit more expensive, but they certainly would have lasted. I'm just curious when they're going to procure new cars for the long distance services.
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The older Superliners are reportedly pretty clapped out, although they are no doubt restorable. If the plan to drop the Southwest Limited goes ahead, Amtrak may be willing to part with some. It would not be a bad plan for VIA to buy some from Amtrak and refurbish. The Rens were a poor design for our conditions, but old Superliners would work just fine until VIA can buy its own.

- Paul
 
M636RF said:
They'll probably meet the same fate their counterparts in Thunder Bay that never made it into service will (if they haven't already): scrap.
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Alstom were already accepting that fate for them in France (being built to a UK MK IV template) before VIA snapped them up at a fraction of book value.

It's a very real shame, but they're fish out of water. Even as stationary sleepers, you'd think someone would snap them up if it comes down to scrap value...
 
Sandpit said:
Webers.
Webers.
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More information
Weber's Burgers on Highway 11 near Orillia, Ontario, Canada has a number of old rail cars from Canada and the USA put to use including two 1949 passenger cars. This Budd Company car is the dining car, fully air-conditioned and a fun place to eat your burger and fries. At left is a Pullman converted into nice washrooms.
Find this Pin and more on Planes, Trains, & Automobiles by Edward Fenner.

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/448108231647796836/

I see the Nightstars being far more useful than that, albeit even the above is better than just scrapping them. With added insulation for the plumbing (not hard to do at all) and a power supply with the proper secondary voltage, even one of these alone would make an excellent cottage.

VIA should retain someone to auction them, or dispose of them to an auction house. Even though they're misfits for VIA use, they're still valuable and well-built, and in a very usable condition in a stationary situation. In fact, they could be used as stations! (On this latter point, they wouldn't meet local building codes, but on a federally regulated railway and RoW property, local building codes don't apply.)
 
Last edited:
steveintoronto said:
More information
Weber's Burgers on Highway 11 near Orillia, Ontario, Canada has a number of old rail cars from Canada and the USA put to use including two 1949 passenger cars. This Budd Company car is the dining car, fully air-conditioned and a fun place to eat your burger and fries. At left is a Pullman converted into nice washrooms.
Find this Pin and more on Planes, Trains, & Automobiles by Edward Fenner.

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/448108231647796836/

I see the Nightstars being far more useful than that, albeit even the above is better than just scrapping them. With added insulation for the plumbing (not hard to do at all) and a power supply with the proper secondary voltage, even one of these alone would make an excellent cottage.

VIA should retain someone to auction them, or dispose of them to an auction house. Even though they're misfits for VIA use, they're still valuable and well-built, and in a very usable condition in a stationary situation. In fact, they could be used as stations! (On this latter point, they wouldn't meet local building codes, but on a federally regulated railway and RoW property, local building codes don't apply.)
Click to expand...

But the National Building Code would apply.

As an aside, I've never understood the attraction of Weber's - jammed parking lot and long lines in the sun for a barely mediocre burger (maybe they were better in bygone days). I do get that cottagers have their traditional routines - back in the day it was a sit-down at the old Sundial Restaurant. When I'm riding in the area, two places I am extra cautious are Weber's and the s/b Tim's at Gravenhurst - too many drivers doing too much last minute stupid stuff.
 
lenaitch said:
But the National Building Code would apply.

As an aside, I've never understood the attraction of Weber's - jammed parking lot and long lines in the sun for a barely mediocre burger (maybe they were better in bygone days). I do get that cottagers have their traditional routines - back in the day it was a sit-down at the old Sundial Restaurant. When I'm riding in the area, two places I am extra cautious are Weber's and the s/b Tim's at Gravenhurst - too many drivers doing too much last minute stupid stuff.
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I remember Weber's being good - but that was from family trips up to North Bay twenty years ago. I went more recently and was quite disappointed. Some restaurants are still worth lining up for (like Schwartz) but Weber's isn't. Stop at A&W in Orillia instead.
 
Renaissance is a bit of a unicorn fleet - VIA shoehorned into their operations (and it was jobs for Thunder Bay) but with the CTA demanding more accessibility and never been built for North American conditions I suspect its lifespan can't be usefully compared to other fleets, and the differences will make it difficult to attract other buyers as well. I don't think it's worth weeping too much for its departure. Buying Siemens Viaggio or something else actually intended for North American operations is a better long term bet.

As for buying Amtrak stock - apart from the electrical bus differences, I think it's fair to say Amtrak don't have scope to sell any of their rolling stock. They are way way behind in their fleet replacement and every time there is a train crash the entire consist gets held by legal for a ridiculous period of time.
 
dowlingm said:
Renaissance is a bit of a unicorn fleet - VIA shoehorned into their operations (and it was jobs for Thunder Bay) but with the CTA demanding more accessibility and never been built for North American conditions I suspect its lifespan can't be usefully compared to other fleets, and the differences will make it difficult to attract other buyers as well. I don't think it's worth weeping too much for its departure. Buying Siemens Viaggio or something else actually intended for North American operations is a better long term bet.

As for buying Amtrak stock - apart from the electrical bus differences, I think it's fair to say Amtrak don't have scope to sell any of their rolling stock. They are way way behind in their fleet replacement and every time there is a train crash the entire consist gets held by legal for a ridiculous period of time.
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The Renaissance fleet was never set up well for solo travellers who wanted a bed, and VIA did not put a proper kitchen in the diner cars. I took the Ocean in 2004 on a solo trip when it had the HEP-I fleet and I got a roomette and enjoyed the cooked-to-order dinner and breakfast.

My partner and I took the Ocean last year, and we got the big bedroom in the Park Car, but the microwaved meals were lousy - which seems a bit odd, because VIA does a decent job of serving reheated meals in business class on Corridor trains. I've been in the Ren bedrooms as well, and I still prefer the HEPs.

It will be really nice to see the HEPs back on the Ocean.
 
lenaitch said:
But the National Building Code would apply.

As an aside, I've never understood the attraction of Weber's - jammed parking lot and long lines in the sun for a barely mediocre burger (maybe they were better in bygone days). I do get that cottagers have their traditional routines - back in the day it was a sit-down at the old Sundial Restaurant. When I'm riding in the area, two places I am extra cautious are Weber's and the s/b Tim's at Gravenhurst - too many drivers doing too much last minute stupid stuff.
Click to expand...

If you want good char-broiled burgers, the much, much better spot is Burger Pit on Hwy 11 at Line 10.
 
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