reteequa
Active Member
Once the system is fully converted to pantos will we see the trolly poles removed?
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DSC
Superstar
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Eventually, yes.
To add detail from Steve Munro's site: https://stevemunro.ca/2020/12/12/ttc-service-changes-january-1-2021-part-i-streetcars/
Steve: The new cars came with trolley poles because a planned conversion to pantographs years ago was cut from the budget.
Pantographs have the advantage that they do not dewire, but in terms of the new cars the more important factor is that with a larger contact area, they can draw more power. When I read about delays for “operational problems”, it’s easy at times to figure out that the overhead is down somewhere, and these locations are commonly now in the portions of the network where poles are still in use, although not exclusively.
There is a second stage to the changeover that has only been implemented on parts of the system: a move to self-tensioning overhead. This is made possible by breaks in the contact wire where two sections overlap (no problem for pans, impossible for poles), and it automatically corrects for changes in wire tension with the temperature.
A third stage that is some years off will involve removal of the special work at intersections (the frogs where wires join and divide). Again, this is a simple arrangement for pans that can slide from one wire to another while poles need a continuous contact. There are many locations on the system where intersections are in a transitional state supporting both poles and pans. Yet another pan-only change will be to slew the contact wire right to left along the direction of travel so that wear on the carbons on the pantographs is evened out rather than forming a groove.
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drum118
Superstar
If 4412 is off loaded tomorrow, it will be 193 days it left TTC tracks.
4418 arrived Nov 25 and still in the service bay. 4410 arrived Dec 11 and in the service bay. Both are spending time on the yard service track up to a week at times.
May see 4427 in Feb
Still no sign of 4471 & 4478 that were to arrive early last year.
As for stagger of overhead wire, it should happen once the line becomes fully pans. That can be done today as it will have very little effect on poles.
4418 arrived Nov 25 and still in the service bay. 4410 arrived Dec 11 and in the service bay. Both are spending time on the yard service track up to a week at times.
May see 4427 in Feb
Still no sign of 4471 & 4478 that were to arrive early last year.
As for stagger of overhead wire, it should happen once the line becomes fully pans. That can be done today as it will have very little effect on poles.
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drum118
Superstar
4412 is now sitting at TTC Hillcrest dock and mostly likely unload Monday
drum118
Superstar
4412 was off loaded Tuesday and 4426 took it place on the flat for a trip to Quebec. 193 days since 4412 was on TTC tracks.
4410 & 4418 are taking turn on the various yard tracks before going back into the service bay.
4418 is on the in service track, 4410 on yard service track and 4412 in the service bay at this time.
4410 & 4418 are taking turn on the various yard tracks before going back into the service bay.
4418 is on the in service track, 4410 on yard service track and 4412 in the service bay at this time.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I’m behind the news.... how many are left to deliver? Is there a plan to place a second order?
nfitz
Superstar
All delivered. About 60 or so of the early ones need welding repairs, under warranty. So they are shipping them out for repairs and back.
13 more are being ordered paid for by the city, with delivery starting next year. There's an option for 47 more with the expectation that the province and feds will pay for them, with delivery through 2023 into 2024.
13 more are being ordered paid for by the city, with delivery starting next year. There's an option for 47 more with the expectation that the province and feds will pay for them, with delivery through 2023 into 2024.
drum118
Superstar
4604-4616 due late 2022 and more like 2023. Don't see 4617-4663 showing up until 2025 plus, since no funds for them and Ford not keen on paying part of the order at this time. Don't expect to see the feds pickup 66% to 100% for them based on what going on at this time.
4401 was the last car to enter service on April 14/2020 (2,615 Day or 7 years, 1 month and 28 days), considering it arrived as a prototype on June 17/2013. 4603 entre service on February 08/2020 (14 Days)
4400 to 4466 were to have their welds fixed since the frames were built in Mexico and BBD had some concerns about them. Plan was to see 7 cars out at any given time to have the weld fix with a 19 week turn around (133 days) plus the standard TTC Inspection and 300 km of testing. It was expected that the first few cars would take longer to setup the jigs, taking the car a part as well the welding. That has only happen for a few cars, but taken close to 200 plus days. TTC is seeing 30 to over 90 days to get cars back into service and longer than plan. Then some of the extra time could be related to warranty since the 1 year kick in when 4401 arrived.
Timeframe so far as of today
| LVR # | Date Loaded | Date Return | # Days | Re-Enter Service | # Days | |||||
4400 | September 07/2018 | October 03/2019 | 391 | November 21/2019 | 50 | |||||
4401 | May 14/2018 | March 23/2020 | 680 | April 14/2020 | 22 | |||||
4402 | ||||||||||
4403 | February 20/2019 | February 27/2020 | 372 | June 05/2020 | 116 | |||||
4404 | October 29/2018 | March 13/2020 | 502 | May 21/2020 | 70 | |||||
4405 | April 10/2019 | February 03/2020 | 300 | April 18/2020 | 76 | |||||
4406 | May 01/2019 | December 16/2019 | 231 | March 14/2020 | 89 | |||||
4407 | June 07/2019 | May 06/2020 | 335 | June 23/2020 | 32 | |||||
4408 | June 28/2019 | May 27/2020 | 335 | July 08/2020 | 43 | |||||
4409 | March 13/2020 | August 07/2020 | 147 | Oct 10/2020 | 69 | |||||
4410 | June 29/2020 | Dec 11/2020 | 169 | 40+ | ||||||
4411 | May 05/2020 | Sept 22/2020 | 140 | October 29/2020 | 37 | |||||
4412 | July 09/2020 | Jan 19/2021 | 194 | 1+ | ||||||
4413 | September 22/2020 | 120+ | ||||||||
4414 | September 06/2019 | July 01/2019 | 299 | August 12/2020 | 42 | |||||
4415 | May 27/2020 | Oct 13/2020 | 140 | Nov 04/2020 | 22 | |||||
4416 | October 13/2020 | 90+ | ||||||||
4417 | June 12/2020 | Oct 26/2020 | 137 | November 28/2020 | 33 | |||||
4418 | June 22/2020 | Nov 25/2020 | 154 | 56+ | ||||||
4419 | October 26/2020 | 86+ | ||||||||
4420 | ||||||||||
4421 | November 24/2020 | 57+ | ||||||||
4422 | ||||||||||
4423 | ||||||||||
4424 | ||||||||||
4425 | ||||||||||
4426 | Jan 19/2021 | 1+ | ||||||||
4427 | August 27/2020 | 146+ |
4471 | April 03/2019 | 658+ | |||||||||
4478 | January 23/2019 | 728+ |
drum118
Superstar
4418 Has re-enter service on 501
4410 is on the yard service track and has been there a few days so far. It could be back in service mid Feb
4427 should be the next car to arrive early next months and may see 4413 as well later that month.
If the current turn around continues, the last car from Quebec should show up late 2022, but more 2023 and be back in service in 2024.
4410 is on the yard service track and has been there a few days so far. It could be back in service mid Feb
4427 should be the next car to arrive early next months and may see 4413 as well later that month.
If the current turn around continues, the last car from Quebec should show up late 2022, but more 2023 and be back in service in 2024.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Thanks. Wasn’t there talk of placing a new order for additional cars once the last returns to service in 2024?
drum118
Superstar
Only if there is funding for them. At this time there is no money in place other than for the current 13 on order. If money was found today, all 60 cars would be order ASP.
Toronto been screw from day one on having one supplier to build things for TTC than going to the market to get real bids on any tender. TTC keeps shooting themselves in the head by thinking they know best than the manufacture as well the pol's who sit on the Commission.
GM/CEO of TTC have not help the matter since the days of Dave Gunn or the short time frame for Andy.
It would be interesting to see what the final cost is for the new fleet after the last rebuilt cars is back in service for both TTC and BBD/Alstom compare to the contract price. The cost of the 13 extra cars will off set some of BBD/Alstom losses, let alone the other 47 once order.
One thing that needs to happen for the next fleet is to go duel end and remove various loops using stub ends.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I’m 49 now. I’d be in my 90s before the entire fleet is swapped.
drum118
Superstar
4410 has re-enter service on 511 after arriving Dec 11/20 or 43 day. Its one of the fastest to re-enter service under 50 days.
This leaves 4412 that arrived Jan 19/21 and would say off hand we may see it in service in March or April..
Free up space for staff to work on other cars to get them up to warranty standards and other fixes.
This leaves 4412 that arrived Jan 19/21 and would say off hand we may see it in service in March or April..
Free up space for staff to work on other cars to get them up to warranty standards and other fixes.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
drum118
Superstar
4412 has been out the last 2 days doing on street testing.
The future Is starting to arrive, but not the first to do this. Once these start to come main stream, time TTC to move to it with the next fleet as well adding more cars to the fleet. Once the last car is remove or converted, time to remove the eye sore overhead system that will save TTC money yearly both on powering the system, maintaining it as well the equipment on the fleet. Most likely will have charging stations along the route like what been plan for TTC buses as well other systems using battery power trams today.
First battery-powered tram successfully tested by Hitachi Rail
The future Is starting to arrive, but not the first to do this. Once these start to come main stream, time TTC to move to it with the next fleet as well adding more cars to the fleet. Once the last car is remove or converted, time to remove the eye sore overhead system that will save TTC money yearly both on powering the system, maintaining it as well the equipment on the fleet. Most likely will have charging stations along the route like what been plan for TTC buses as well other systems using battery power trams today.
First battery-powered tram successfully tested by Hitachi Rail