I highly doubt that the majority of people living along Eglinton want Sheppard subway and nothing build on Eglinton.
1)
Sure. But, Sheppard was started, wasn't it? So there is precedent for it to be finished.
We can't start building a little here a little there, some over here, a bit more up there... such planning results in nothing getting done.
Extending Sheppard subway has merit long-term, but the immediate benefit of going from buses to grade-separate transit will be much greater on Eglinton, since its central parts are much more congested than Sheppard east of Don Mills.
Sure. But again, as stated in 1).
If they continue with Eglinton and just re-purpose the Sheppard funding from SELRT to a short subway extension (to Vic Park or Warden), this is kind of acceptable.
Any metro expansion is well worth it.
Miller's dictatorship preferred nothing. So, now people are enthusiastic.
If they halt Eglinton altogether and send all funds to Sheppard, that will be outright stupid; both because central Eglinton needs grade-separate transit more urgently, and because Eglinton design is much more advanced.
I do not agree here. An Eglinton metro is a long term thing. I do not expect it to be totally shunned.
Besides, there is money do some tunneling on both Eglinton and Sheppard. Both are urgent because they are under threat from the tram fanatics.
I think that the fastest thing would be an extension to sheppard - however long it may be. Ford supports that. Lets hope he livs up to that. I feel that this is the most urgent because it is under the most threat from the trams.
Any metro expansion is outright great! I see sheppard being the fastest thing that I can hope to see. So I am happy. I don't care if it is extended 3 km or 6 km though.
And man, if anyone wants to see more subways that person would be me. So don't repurpose this discussion from Subway vs LRT to Subway vs Subway - arguing much about where what will go will only deter from building it, no? We all need to express support for extending Sheppard. And other such extensions too of course. But there seems to be momentum for this Sheppard extension. So lets cheer for it, regardless of how long it is.
Most likely Metrolinx will not deny Ford outright, but will demand a City Council vote and a new Sheppard Subway EA before committing funds to Sheppard Subway extension. That means no construction for a couple of years at least; and by the time the EA is ready, we might see a new provincial government whose priorities are very remote from transit.
Well they made an EA before. They can use it, no? It's not hard to make an EA. We make mock EAs in my Environmental Planning class. It's relatively simple stuff.
I think it is fair to say that any government would support transit expansion. It's more apparent that the cost of waiting is too high.
It depends on what you define as automobile dependence. If it means the number of people commuting on transit, then the Sheppard Subway extension would be a reasonable target. If it means the number of people owning cars, then a subway line Downtown would be a better use of funds.
Well, what I find to be quite significant about sheppard is that it is not a downtown centric route. It thus provides more opportunities for people.
Let's not get mixed up with the technical term "Rapid Transit", which refers to a grade separated electric railway, and the speed of transit.
I do mean that technical term.
Fun fact: the Los Angeles Green Line has an average speed 15km/h faster than any of our subway lines, and it uses "light rail vehicles", in other words, trams.
...
Other technologies can be competitive as well.
Are they fully grade separated? Do they stop at red lights?
Tram fanatics do not recognize that BRT is much cheaper than new tramways. They holler about cost but themselves do not want to reduce cost.
Yes. It does bother me how a minority headed by Rob Ford is imposing his plan on a majority who would rather have a network of fast transit than one "rapid transit" line to a mall.
Well that's how things work in the modern era. Comprehensive plans simply fall through. So incremental methods work out. Some here some there, bit by bit and it gets done.
But the pauses between construction are too long. A comprehensive plan is nice, but it takes longer and can fail more easily. Incremental planning is more practical.
However, for whatever reasons and for whoever you want to blame, that immediate ship has sailed and we have a city-wide LRT plan on the table with promised funding from the province and even a chip-in from the Feds that is ready to start actual construction essentially immediately.
The ship went down a wrong route.
Funding can be changed. It's better to fund something that is better than to fund something that's worse. You think they'll just let those funds disappear? There is something called reallocation.
We certainly have no guarantee that the province or Metrolinx will play ball with the back-of-the-napkin proposal the TTC is supposed to whip up in six weeks to fit Ford's pronouncement of canceling TC and switching to subways and the provincial treasury would probably love to be able to take back a few billion dollars to help with the provincial deficit.
TC is a VERY costly idea. You forget that. What was the plan, 20 billion dollars for it all total or something ridiculous like that?
There is always going to be demand for transit money. TC or no TC, such demands are always going to be there. Even after TC. So they'll be coughing up money for transit expansion regardless of what it is.
Who is trying to ignore it? SELRT will be servicing far more of the corridor than any affordable subway and will provide service speeds far closer to subway than to the existing buses.
Nah, SELRT speeds are like 20 km an hour I think. Kinda slow. The S in SELRT stands for Snail.
If you are so desperate for money just go for a BRT line. The cost argument that the tram fanatics have always fails.
The previously planned Eglinton subway was going to be a short stubway from the Allen out to Weston. Demand projections for 2031 aren't even half of what would be required to justify full subway and the advantage of the LRT line is that it can operate as a subway in the middle and as a much cheaper surface runner on either side while still providing near subway level speeds.
BRT can do what LRT can do for less money.
Projections are CRAP. I thought I explained the flaw with them. They take current situations and expand them just as if more population was being added. They do not take into consideration land use changes. For that they fail.
I've spent too much time. ttyl
