Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter vic
- Start date
ADRM
Senior Member
The successful proponent is expected to be announced in fall 2018.
raptor
Senior Member
Yes, hopefully preliminary construction starts this year. Rutherford GO project should also start this year, and double tracking most likely next year.
Exciting times for the Barrie line.
ADRM
Senior Member
Yes, though all of the above also potentially contingent on the outcome of the June election.
crs1026
Superstar
I'm optimistic this will survive the election. Without the overpass, better two way all day service to Aurora/Barrie isn't feasible. Too many ridings north of Toronto who want that, but only one riding impacted at Davenport.
No PC candidate is going to argue for the much more expensive and complicated tunnel option.
- Paul
facepalming_brooklynite
Active Member
Why are you assuming that this line will only be used by people commuting from Barrie? It will also provide a direct and fast route for people going from the West End to York University that avoids the overcrowded transfer at St George
vic
Senior Member
I wonder how much the following factors would come into play though:
* Longer (and un-sheltered) transfer from Lansdowne TTC to Blansdowne GO
* Longer wait time for next northbound train
* Another transfer at Downsview Park station to get back on TTC to finish ride into York U
* Fare difference?
The GO connection might still win on speed, but would it be worth it all the time for everyone? Maybe if you're walking to the Blansdowne GO instead of transferring....
* Longer (and un-sheltered) transfer from Lansdowne TTC to Blansdowne GO
* Longer wait time for next northbound train
* Another transfer at Downsview Park station to get back on TTC to finish ride into York U
* Fare difference?
The GO connection might still win on speed, but would it be worth it all the time for everyone? Maybe if you're walking to the Blansdowne GO instead of transferring....
facepalming_brooklynite
Active Member
This is still pretty attractive if weighed against the uncomfortable and unsafe overcrowding on the Bloor-Danforth line and at St George, which are only going to get worse over time.
Yes, there will have to be further fare integration, but even at the current TTC co-fare, people may want to go this way for the added comfort.
Or cycling: it will have connections to the West Toronto Railpath
torontocolin
Active Member
You're talking about students; I don't think many of them will have the disposable income to ride the fancy train for the extra comfort. And since they're students, many of them will be travelling off-peak, negating the impact of the rush hour crowding, which is itself not bad at all if you're going north on Line 1 and transfer at Spadina (which is still a nicer transfer than Bloor-Lansdowne will be).
There will be some riders, for sure, but I don't think there will be significant ridership northbound to York.
There will be some riders, for sure, but I don't think there will be significant ridership northbound to York.
facepalming_brooklynite
Active Member
Actually, I'm thinking of faculty members too. I know several who are hoping for this option to arrive.
As far as the crowding is concerned, you're right about Line 1 going north in the am and south in the pm. However, line 2 is extremely crowded in the afternoon rush, I don't think you could count on getting on a train if you transferred at Spadina at 6pm. And in the morning I've been at times unable to board am rush hour trains at Dundas West.
My larger point is that the Barrie RER will provide an alternative north-south route within the city that will be useful to many riders, especially as crowding on the subway is getting worse.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
These new interchange stations are important in gridding-out the frequent-rapid-transit rail networks of Toronto.
Problems/blockages and overcrowding on individual trip segments can be relieved via other rail routes that intersect rail routes. Like in London, NYC, China, etc. All those loops and intersects! But noooo, we had only one loop. Line 1 and 2 crossing each other -- the U crossed by a horizontal line -- for decades.
The upgrade of GO from a suburban peak period service into 2-way frequent rapid transit, combined with the new LRTs, and electric 15-min GO, will literally overlay a massively expanded "perceived subway map" (definition: frequent & fast rail rapid transit in dedicated corridors).
Repeated political tweaking (my taxpayer wallet wants to say hello) can be really frustrating but you have to admit that the combination of DRL, Crosstown, 15-min electrified GO (whether one calls it SmartTrack or RER), will essentially practically double the size of the 416 "perceived subway map".
From the opening of the Crosstown / "SmartTrack" stations in ~2021-2025 -- plus a few LRTs -- through the opening of electrified GO around then, up til the opening of DRL by ~2031-2035. (and a few other goodies I missed -- that Scarborough thingy).
Doubled-size "subway" map!
In the span of one mere decade.
That's quite massive progress by pokey Toronto standards.
Problems/blockages and overcrowding on individual trip segments can be relieved via other rail routes that intersect rail routes. Like in London, NYC, China, etc. All those loops and intersects! But noooo, we had only one loop. Line 1 and 2 crossing each other -- the U crossed by a horizontal line -- for decades.
The upgrade of GO from a suburban peak period service into 2-way frequent rapid transit, combined with the new LRTs, and electric 15-min GO, will literally overlay a massively expanded "perceived subway map" (definition: frequent & fast rail rapid transit in dedicated corridors).
Repeated political tweaking (my taxpayer wallet wants to say hello) can be really frustrating but you have to admit that the combination of DRL, Crosstown, 15-min electrified GO (whether one calls it SmartTrack or RER), will essentially practically double the size of the 416 "perceived subway map".
From the opening of the Crosstown / "SmartTrack" stations in ~2021-2025 -- plus a few LRTs -- through the opening of electrified GO around then, up til the opening of DRL by ~2031-2035. (and a few other goodies I missed -- that Scarborough thingy).
Doubled-size "subway" map!
In the span of one mere decade.
That's quite massive progress by pokey Toronto standards.
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BurlOak
Senior Member
Any chance the Davenport riding would trade some of the bells and whistles for a Station at St. Clair?
Megaton327
Senior Member
I believe that was one of the concessions they requested but analysis of the station showed it was an excessively poor idea in many ways, even worse than Kirby for instance from what I recall; namely the costs and negative impacts on ridership from upstream passengers exceeded the benefits of the miniscule projected ridership. I think it was also a little too close to the overpass which complicated matters substantially.
Even the other requested station at Bloor-Lansdowne has been found wanting for ridership, although it was approved in the end. IMO that one is necessary, a connection to Line 2 would be huge and open up GO for a lot of people who work on Bloor West and make it more enticing even for those heading to U of T or Bloor-Yonge. I think that is an example of where the reality is likely to exceed estimates and models. The 512 is not nearly such a major transit line, there aren't really any colossal major employment sites along St Clair, and Downsview Park/Caledonia+Line 5/Lansdowne will provide good access between the GO line and that neighbourhood.
dowlingm
Senior Member
ADRM
Senior Member
What you seem to think are frivolous bells and whistles are the things that the actual community are most excited about.