Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Third thank you to Solid Snake. Keep up the fight


The Province and city are ridiculous.

 

[Voltz]

That document is almost 4 years old. The more recent one is probably more accurate

The more recent one was referring to LRT in general, and came out at a time when they were trying to justify an all tunneled line. The other one referred to that specific section of the line. Which one sounds more accurate? There has not exactly been some recent breakthrough in the accuracy of these estimations.

 

[ssiguy2]

Uh, I think you're making my point for me. Scarborough is 100x less dense than NYC boroughs.

SSI - the Gardiner was also considered beautiful and modern in its time. The Golden Mile needs to change. Building a barrier will guarantee it doesn't change inti a family friendly neighbourhood. Other than tilting at windmills or being car drivers, your arguments make so little sense.

The Golden Mile doesn't need to change but rather quite the opposite. It is essential that the Golden Mile stay zoned for exactly what it currently is...........commercial/industrial.

Despite what Miller's dream of "great city building" he knew shockingly little about it. As I stated, economically and socially vibrant cities need a Golden Mile just as much as a Bloor, Yonge, or Queen. These industrial/commercial areas provide much needed employment within easy access to most of the city dwellers. People need to work and businesses need land and building space to operate and expand and the Golden Mile offers those things. Transforming this area over to residential would create traffic nightmares and force far more people into their cars. The reason for this is that commercial/industrial lands are at a premium in the city and by transferring those lands to residential means those businesses have to flee the city to get available land and the only areas with that kind of land are those in the 905.

A transference of these essential work place would mean that thousands would have to take their cars to get to their far flung employment that do not have to do it now. People have this odd idea that somehow European cities that Miller has wet dreams over don't have these areas. Paris, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Rome.............every city has these sorts of areas as they are essential to the city's economy. Where do you think the people in those cities buy their cars, gas, home building supplies, have their hi-tech, or warehouses? Contrary to many urban planner dreams they don't have those businesses in the back of some chic little cafe on some bohemian blvd but their own versions of the Golden Mile.

Elevation is perfect for these ideas and again the Gardiner is totally different. The Gardiner is downtown, blocks the Waterfront, is a concrete mess underneath it, and is 6 lanes wide.

Also it was mentioned that LRT is cheaper to run than elevation but that is completely false as elevated means grade separation and that means lines can be automated which one would think be essential for a TTC which continually bitches at Queen's Park that it is short on operational funds.

 

[GenerationW]

So Crickets Chirping Station.....I mean Leslie Station lives on because a few of Jaye Robinson's rich supporters living in a Leslie Street condo in an area with hardly any density threw their weight around. Nice job Metrolinx! Way to show some backbone!!

We're all doomed.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Depends on the cost. If it's less than $450 Million, I may be willing to support it. Over $500 Million is too much.

Seriously? You're willing to spend $450 MILLION but not $500M? What's 8 figures between friends if you're spending 9 figures? Wow.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

The Golden Mile doesn't need to change but rather quite the opposite. It is essential that the Golden Mile stay zoned for exactly what it currently is...........commercial/industrial.

Uh, and I mean this question sincerely as I don't know where you live, have you ever been to the Golden Mile? The 'industrial' part of your 'commercial/industrial' went by the wayside sometime in the '70s. With a couple of exceptions, the Golden Mile is either big box stores, shopping centres, or strip malls. Lots of parking lots, lots of auto dealers. Centennial College has a campus in there somewhere to the north. This is not a high-tech industry hub in the making. It's not even the collection of small-industry textile and other businesses on Midland or the industrial places on Birchmount at Danforth. It's a vast sea of Walmarts/Eglinton Town Centres/Golden Mile Chevrolets. To spend $500M to elevate a train or billions to build a subway ignores the reality that there's plenty of land to build and LRT on -- the centre of Eglinton Avenue.

To compare Eglinton to the part of Richmond which the Canada Line bisects is absurd as well -- and I'm willing to bet that the idyllic setting of Richmond with its bike paths and density will look a lot different in 50 years when the concrete is stained and the bike paths tough to maintain.

Here's the Streetview at Warden:

http://tinyurl.com/d757x8n

And, as I said before, the Gardiner is only different because it's 2013, not 1963. They built the Gardiner specifically to cut off the industrial waterfront from the city centre. To build an elevated track on Eglinton is wilfully putting a train in the air because you want a train in the air. That's the only reason to do it.

Finally, apropos to the Leslie to Don Mills brouhaha -- quite frankly, while I think Don Mills had certain attractions (especially the OSC parking lot as a construction site) I think that minimizing changes that need to touch this toxic Mayor and Council is a HUGE win. Do not underestimate the damage Ford can do. Opening up any plan to his meddling is to invite disaster -- not necessarily because he actually wants disaster (although with transit that might be the case), but because he is incapable of complex decision-making or compromise.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

ssiguy2 lives in B.C.

 

[ShonTron]

Finally, apropos to the Leslie to Don Mills brouhaha -- quite frankly, while I think Don Mills had certain attractions (especially the OSC parking lot as a construction site) I think that minimizing changes that need to touch this toxic Mayor and Council is a HUGE win. Do not underestimate the damage Ford can do. Opening up any plan to his meddling is to invite disaster -- not necessarily because he actually wants disaster (although with transit that might be the case), but because he is incapable of complex decision-making or compromise.

Maybe not Ford specifically, but Denzil Minnan-Wong has never passed up the opportunity to muck things up in a deliberate, almost evil fashion.

 

[Ozman]

Maybe not Ford specifically, but Denzil Minnan-Wong has never passed up the opportunity to muck things up in a deliberate, almost evil fashion.

Ok, but they (Metrolinx) stuck to their guns for the EA amendment regarding Mt. Dennis and it was passed by city council the same day Metrolinx announced the about face re: Brentcliffe-Don Mills!

 

[nfitz]

Ok, but they (Metrolinx) stuck to their guns for the EA amendment regarding Mt. Dennis and it was passed by city council the same day Metrolinx announced the about face re: Brentcliffe-Don Mills!

Ah, but that was relatively non-contentious - and a significant improvement over the existing EA for the community. There'd likely have to be adjustments to the EA for Kennedy station as well ... and I expect that will fly through without much noise.

 

[dowlingm]

I dunno about Jaye Robinson, it seems to me that John Parker has been the one shouting about it (it's on the east end of his ward)

 

[RocketAppliances]

Jaye Robinson has been touting this as a victory for herself and the Leslie "residents" - the pockets of inward facing neighbourhood on Leslie from Eglinton to I suppose York Mills

 

[ssiguy2]

I did say home building supplies {ie big box Home Depot} gas stations and where they buy their cars for a partial description of the Golden Mile.

My point was that some think LRT at grade is fine as it will create a more urban environment with higher density which is impossible.............when was the last time you say a big box store abandoned for residential? Grade separation would be much faster, reliable, less disruptive to build, have far higher capacity, be cheaper to operate due to automation, and , wait for it, CHEAPER to build. Yes, that's right cheaper to build because the underground stations could be much smaller than they are currently planned for if the system was automated as the frequency could be easily double the frequency of any non-grade separated system. One 40 meter subway station has the capacity of a 90 meter LRT station in a non-grade separated system.

Vancouver's Canada Line 50 meter stations are too small but will still have a higher capacity than Eglinton's 100 meter stations and are much cheaper and easier to build. The cost savings from smaller underground stations would offset the difference in price between an elevated DM to Kennedy section.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I did say home building supplies {ie big box Home Depot} gas stations and where they buy their cars for a partial description of the Golden Mile.

My point was that some think LRT at grade is fine as it will create a more urban environment with higher density which is impossible.............when was the last time you say a big box store abandoned for residential? Grade separation would be much faster, reliable, less disruptive to build, have far higher capacity, be cheaper to operate due to automation, and , wait for it, CHEAPER to build. Yes, that's right cheaper to build because the underground stations could be much smaller than they are currently planned for if the system was automated as the frequency could be easily double the frequency of any non-grade separated system. One 40 meter subway station has the capacity of a 90 meter LRT station in a non-grade separated system.

Vancouver's Canada Line 50 meter stations are too small but will still have a higher capacity than Eglinton's 100 meter stations and are much cheaper and easier to build. The cost savings from smaller underground stations would offset the difference in price between an elevated DM to Kennedy section.

OK, Emperor, put on some clothes. Your nonsensical arguments just hit rock bottom.

 

[rbt]

OK, Emperor, put on some clothes. Your nonsensical arguments just hit rock bottom.

Indeed. Amongst other things, Eglinton is automated and being built for 90 second frequencies.

One of the motivations for the tunnel into the yard was to allow trains to park themselves.


I'm still amazed that after 3 years SSIGuy contunes to refuse to read official documents on this and other projects which he appears, based on comment volume rather than comment content, to be very passionate about.