Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[11th]

why not continue north and then head west on Finch to Yonge? more transit for Scarborough and another crosstown.

Next step, continue south from Humber College to Pearson and Eglinton West. A giant loop line.

 

[Rainforest]

I wonder, why not loop it back down to STC, then across Ellsmere, then straight down Kennedy to Kennedy station? You'll have a closed loop of transit that addresses inter-Scarborough travel, a transfer free connection to the Yonge Line and RT access to the Kennedy/Lawrence SmartTrack station.

Not a good idea, for multiple reasons:

1) A super-long line will be hard to operate, as delays at any single spot will affect the whole line.

2) The light rail connection from STC down Kennedy (in the street median) to Line 2 will be slower than today's SRT. Not an improvement but a downgrade.

3) The peak demand between STC to Kennedy is at least 7,000 per hour per direction, and might grow even higher in the medium term. TTC will not want to handle this kind of demand in semi-exclusive ROW. It is instructive to remember that they wouldn't even run the extension of SLRT east of Scarborough Centre in street-median, despite the demand level being a lot lower there.

4) Contrary to the claim made, it will not provide a transfer-free connection from STC to the Yonge line. Noone in the right mind will travel from STC east to Morningside and then back west to Kennedy towards Yonge, as that kind of detour would add good 25 min to the trip time each way.

And, of course, there is no such thing as Kennedy/Lawrence SmartTrack station, and won't be. The distance from Kennedy to the Lawrence East station is about 400 m.

 

[Aplus23]

I'm pretty sure they're making a smart track/go station at the former lawrence east rt station at kennedy/lawrence which will connect to the go station at kennedy

Not a good idea, for multiple reasons:

1) A super-long line will be hard to operate, as delays at any single spot will affect the whole line.

2) The light rail connection from STC down Kennedy (in the street median) to Line 2 will be slower than today's SRT. Not an improvement but a downgrade.

3) The peak demand between STC to Kennedy is at least 7,000 per hour per direction, and might grow even higher in the medium term. TTC will not want to handle this kind of demand in semi-exclusive ROW. It is instructive to remember that they wouldn't even run the extension of SLRT east of Scarborough Centre in street-median, despite the demand level being a lot lower there.

4) Contrary to the claim made, it will not provide a transfer-free connection from STC to the Yonge line. Noone in the right mind will travel from STC east to Morningside and then back west to Kennedy towards Yonge, as that kind of detour would add good 25 min to the trip time each way.

And, of course, there is no such thing as Kennedy/Lawrence SmartTrack station, and won't be. The distance from Kennedy to the Lawrence East station is about 400 m.

 

[syn]

why not continue north and then head west on Finch to Yonge? more transit for Scarborough and another crosstown.

Seems like a good idea.

STC seems to be consistently cited as the location where all transit must go, so I was thinking of a loop that would make best use of available transit dollars. Another line from MTC to Finch station would make a lot of sense too.

LRTS LRTS LRTS

 

[BurlOak]

Seems like a good idea.

STC seems to be consistently cited as the location where all transit must go, so I was thinking of a loop that would make best use of available transit dollars. Another line from MTC to Finch station would make a lot of sense too.

LRTS LRTS LRTS

Essentially, what was needed was a diagonal line from Malvern to downtown (or at least Yonge). Could have been along Eglinton, or directly downtown.
Once this was in place - then you can fill your boots with all the local LRT's that you want to connect to this.

 

[sixrings]

Essentially, what was needed was a diagonal line from Malvern to downtown (or at least Yonge). Could have been along Eglinton, or directly downtown.
Once this was in place - then you can fill your boots with all the local LRT's that you want to connect to this.

View attachment 156669

Much prefer a grid. I really wish we could have just built the cross town above ground east of Victoria park and then had it connect with the SLRT. That was the best plan not suggested.

 

[hw621]

Seems like a good idea.

STC seems to be consistently cited as the location where all transit must go, so I was thinking of a loop that would make best use of available transit dollars. Another line from MTC to Finch station would make a lot of sense too.

LRTS LRTS LRTS

DoFo said it's getting a loop, a subway loop

 

[BurlOak]

Much prefer a grid. I really wish we could have just built the cross town above ground east of Victoria park and then had it connect with the SLRT. That was the best plan not suggested.

I understand the terminology to be at-grade or elevated or underground. I assume by "above ground" you mean at-grade.
It was suggested - by David Miller back in ~2008.

When they did the analysis, the number of riders on the at-grade section would overwhelm the system. It had to be 1) fully grade-separated from Kennedy to Yonge, or 2) they had to force a transfer at Kennedy and get all the people onto the B-D line, or 3) they need a different transit line to serve STC.

If you meant elevated - the problem was that connecting the SRT to Eglinton was viewed as a Ford idea, and at the time the goal of transit in Toronto was to defeat Ford, and not to provide good transit.

 

[syn]

DoFo said it's getting a loop, a subway loop

Yes, but it makes little sense.

Sheppard doesn't justify a subway, and you certainly don't need a subway running parallel to the LRT 6km or so apart.

Looping the Eglinton LRT provides rapid transit access for a much larger portion of the population in Scarborough itself.

 

[syn]

Much prefer a grid. I really wish we could have just built the cross town above ground east of Victoria park and then had it connect with the SLRT. That was the best plan not suggested.

Unfortunately that would require a transfer - such things are not allowed there.

You also have the problem of eliminating the Eglinton East LRT portion as planned today.

Scarborough is poorly laid out when it comes to implementing effective transit.

 

[Rainforest]

I'm pretty sure they're making a smart track/go station at the former lawrence east rt station at kennedy/lawrence which will connect to the go station at kennedy

Yes, they want to build a SmartTrack station at the site of the current Lawrence East SRT station, and of course connect it to Lawrence Avenue.

Now please open Google Maps, and tell me how you would connect that station to Kennedy Avenue. When the street and the rail line are 400 m apart.

So, it is a Lawrence station, but it is not a Lawrence / Kennedy station.

 

[sixrings]

Unfortunately that would require a transfer - such things are not allowed there.

You also have the problem of eliminating the Eglinton East LRT portion as planned today.

Scarborough is poorly laid out when it comes to implementing effective transit.

There would be no need of a transfer if Eglinton was 100% grade separated either below or above ground since it could carry the capacity. People would transfer at the DRL though. I have zero faith that Eglinton East is happening in the next 20 years so thats a sacrifice I was willing to make. I hate to say that Robs plan in hindsight actually looks like the best plan we had at least for this corridor.

 

[Rainforest]

When they did the analysis, the number of riders on the at-grade section would overwhelm the system. It had to be 1) fully grade-separated from Kennedy to Yonge, or 2) they had to force a transfer at Kennedy and get all the people onto the B-D line, or 3) they need a different transit line to serve STC.

If you meant elevated - the problem was that connecting the SRT to Eglinton was viewed as a Ford idea, and at the time the goal of transit in Toronto was to defeat Ford, and not to provide good transit.

You are correct stating that the combined Eglinton - SRT line would have to be fully grade-separated, even through Golden Mile, because of the added volume of riders.

I don't think defeating Ford was the main reason that scheme wasn't followed through. Even with fully grade-saperated Eglinton line, the Ford's scheme would cause some distortions in the system. Too many riders transferred from the eastern BD line to Eglinton, and too much extra load on the Yonge line between Eglinton and Bloor.

 

[sixrings]

You are correct stating that the combined Eglinton - SRT line would have to be fully grade-separated, even through Golden Mile, because of the added volume of riders.

I don't think defeating Ford was the main reason that scheme wasn't followed through. Even with fully grade-saperated Eglinton line, the Ford's scheme would cause some distortions in the system. Too many riders transferred from the eastern BD line to Eglinton, and too much extra load on the Yonge line between Eglinton and Bloor.

They could transfer at the DRL instead of Yonge... I think the reason people voted against this is because they knew every corridor like Finch would demand 100% grade separation as well and they know financially this isnt feasible and takes part of the benefit of LRT away (affordable expansion)

 

[Leo_Chan]

Yes, they want to build a SmartTrack station at the site of the current Lawrence East SRT station, and of course connect it to Lawrence Avenue.

Now please open Google Maps, and tell me how you would connect that station to Kennedy Avenue. When the street and the rail line are 400 m apart.

So, it is a Lawrence station, but it is not a Lawrence / Kennedy station.

All the SmartTrack maps show the station at Lawrence Ave on the Stouffville Line as Lawrence-Kennedy Station. This is the same with Finch-Kennedy Station too. If we went by exact geographical naming of stations, many existing subway and GO stations would be incorrect. I’d assume they are copying the name of Kennedy GO Station for all the other new stations on the Stouffville NS corridor between Steeles and Eglinton in the planning phase, as the names can be changed when in the design or construction phases.