Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[OneCity]

No Eglinton West, no Crosstown East, no Waterfront LRT (which was probably already canceled at that point anyways)...it would've taken all available funding, and more.

It's kind of interesting that Scarberians speak of being ignored/underserved/oppressed, yet have no problem taking funding for an important project in another part of the city just so they don't have to be above ground.

If Ford was serious about the project, he would've had a legitimate funding plan in place - but instead it was yet another 'divide and conquer' strategy.

The plans were drastically changing for the better and you expected all the funds to be available immediately? Funds which were based upon the previous corner cutting plan, were going to the new priorities set forth. Doug will soon make it much more straightforward for the City. Province will build subways uninterrupted and the City can figure out funding for those surrounding projects if council so chooses. Ford(s) were only two votes on council so not fair to say what they wanted to achieve. Transit City divided the City, Fords just capitalized as have most other politicians, and the other candidates who ran against Rob.

Maybe you're right and Doug intends to build nothing, I don't believe that to be true but well now get to judge fairly as it will be him making the decisions and not the divisive, uncompromising, opposition working against

 

[sixrings]

David Miller should have last minute ran. TC had support. He basically resigned over the garbage strike. Ford created this us vs them, suburbs vs downtown, subway vs streetcar/lrt debate. Its been a waste of 8 years and now some here think we should waste another 4 years to see if Doug actually cares about transit. Past actions are the best indicators of future actions.

 

[sixrings]

Actually a fair amount of blame should go to the province which first deffered spending, then cut the project, then when Rob got elected acted like they had zero control and gave in to his every need. I really dislike doug but he doesnt run from a fight. The liberals should have fought for TC even if Ford was in office.

 

[syn]

Actually a fair amount of blame should go to the province which first deffered spending, then cut the project, then when Rob got elected acted like they had zero control and gave in to his every need. I really dislike doug but he doesnt run from a fight. The liberals should have fought for TC even if Ford was in office.

It's a domino effect. Once subways became excessively politicized they simply couldn't push through anything they wanted.

I give credit to the province for allowing the city to make their own decisions (for the most part). It certainly helped the Liberals win the 2014 election.

David Miller should have last minute ran. TC had support. He basically resigned over the garbage strike. Ford created this us vs them, suburbs vs downtown, subway vs streetcar/lrt debate. Its been a waste of 8 years and now some here think we should waste another 4 years to see if Doug actually cares about transit. Past actions are the best indicators of future actions.

I recall him wanting more time with his family. It's unfortunate he didn't run again.

 

[sixrings]

wanting more time with family is the most BS PR answer when you know youre about to be fired or in this case might not win the election.... It may be true in this case but the excuse has been used almost exclusively by people about to be shown the door that I am skeptical at the least of these type of statements.

 

[syn]

wanting more time with family is the most BS PR answer when you know youre about to be fired or in this case might not win the election.... It may be true in this case but the excuse has been used almost exclusively by people about to be shown the door that I am skeptical at the least of these type of statements.

Given the ages of his kids at the time it certainly made sense.

His approval ratings had bounced back after the strike - he could've run if he wanted to.

I think it's a BS PR answer when you've done something wrong - but if you simply don't want to run again, can't fault anyone for that. Not everyone wants a lifelong political career.

If I recall Tory doesn't want this job forever either (was it two terms he mentioned?).

 

[sixrings]

Miller was much younger than Tory... Also when the campaigning first started people were ready to move on from David Miller. Only closer to election day did his approval ratings bounce back. Once we realized we were likely getting Ford because the left had split the vote people started to brighten up to Miller. The campaign is so long he could have entered midway and maybe won but im sure he didnt think he had a chance when the campaigning began.

 

[syn]

Miller was much younger than Tory... Also when the campaigning first started people were ready to move on from David Miller. Only closer to election day did his approval ratings bounce back. Once we realized we were likely getting Ford because the left had split the vote people started to brighten up to Miller. The campaign is so long he could have entered midway and maybe won but im sure he didnt think he had a chance when the campaigning began.

He announced that he wouldn't run again over a year before the 2010 election - his approval rating after the strike (43%) was bad, but certainly not insurmountable.

Here is an interview where he talks about it (https://www.thestar.com/life/2014/03/28/a_drink_with_david_miller.html). You could be right of course, but I had no reason to doubt him.

 

[sixrings]

So after spending six months with his family after Ford took office he decided time to go back to work in NYC as a professor? I thought he wanted to be with his family.

 

[syn]

Part time.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/06/14/david_miller_gets_nyc_university_post.html

In any case, I think this is taking the thread off track.

I do completely agree with you that it would've great if he ran for a 3rd term.

 

[sixrings]

Were wayy off track. I just want to be consistent when I hear someone I like say something to me which doesnt pass the smell test the same way I would Doug Ford who says all sorts of nonsense which doesnt pass any test.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

No Eglinton West, no Crosstown East, no Waterfront LRT (which was probably already canceled at that point anyways)...it would've taken all available funding, and more.

It's kind of interesting that Scarberians speak of being ignored/underserved/oppressed, yet have no problem taking funding for an important project in another part of the city just so they don't have to be above ground.

If Ford was serious about the project, he would've had a legitimate funding plan in place - but instead it was yet another 'divide and conquer' strategy.

The plans were drastically changing for the better and you expected all the funds to be available immediately? Funds which were based upon the previous corner cutting plan, were going to the new priorities set forth. Doug will soon make it much more straightforward for the City. Province will build subways uninterrupted and the City can figure out funding for those surrounding projects if council so chooses. Ford(s) were only two votes on council so not fair to say what they wanted to achieve. Transit City divided the City, Fords just capitalized as have most other politicians, and the other candidates who ran against Rob.

Maybe you're right and Doug intends to build nothing, I don't believe that to be true but well now get to judge fairly as it will be him making the decisions and not the divisive, uncompromising, opposition working against

I think everything Doug will want will get in. I think he has to speed it up, which means this battle with Toronto city council needs to end.

 

[BurlOak]

I dunno man. I've been a supporter of the grassroots concept for elevated on Eglinton East since the moment the MOU was signed, and gladly called out Mlinx, the Prov, TOPlanning/Council/TTC for not ever considering it. But I really can't see evidence that Metrolinx was moving toward it when they showed the all-underground contrary, or that Ford would've accepted it since the guy went out of his way to stress *underground* every chance he could get. Besides the Ford administration didn't require more money sent to Sheppard since the touted "private sector" and Feds were to pay for all of it. Well, at least according to him.

It seems abundantly clear that Ford wanted as much savings as possible from the Eglinton Line. He left it with Stintz and Metrolinx to plan the details. Ford didn't even pass the decision through a Council vote - since he left the issue with Stintz and TTC board to iron out and have a full plan. Ford continually talked about receiving the $600M in "savings" from his Eg. Scar LRT (vs. the TC plan) so he could start Sheppard. It was obviously someone who wanted to save as much as possible to funnel to Sheppard. Unfortunately for him, Stintz wanted to sabotage the Ford plan to help her own Mayoralty run. Metrolinx, as directed by their Liberal masters, wanted to defeat the plan because conservatives were gaining in popularity and a defeat of Ford would also help defeat Harper.

This would have worked but then no Eglinton West, and that is where Rob lived. The question is where is the money for the rest of the projects at that point.

No Eglinton West, no Crosstown East, no Waterfront LRT (which was probably already canceled at that point anyways)...it would've taken all available funding, and more.

It's kind of interesting that Scarberians speak of being ignored/underserved/oppressed, yet have no problem taking funding for an important project in another part of the city just so they don't have to be above ground.

If Ford was serious about the project, he would've had a legitimate funding plan in place - but instead it was yet another 'divide and conquer' strategy.

Like I said - basically we would have had Eglinton from Mount Dennis to STC. No Finch. Ford did secure $700M from Harper for the SSE, which he likely would have also obtained for Sheppard and pressure would have mounted for Wynne to match. This $600M savings from Eg. Scar. LRT, plus another $1B if elevated, plus $700M from Harper, plus a likely $700M matching from Wynne would have been enough to get Sheppard completed.

Another difference would have been that there would have been a lot more momentum towards building the DRL - which would have worked very well with a grade-separated Eglinton.

So now we have Eglinton, with on street parts from Leslie to Kennedy, plus SSE, plus Finch LRT, and a DRL to Pape.
We would have had Eglinton grade-separated to STC, Sheppard subway to STC, and DRL to Eglinton.

 

[Rainforest]

It seems abundantly clear that Ford wanted as much savings as possible from the Eglinton Line. He left it with Stintz and Metrolinx to plan the details. Ford didn't even pass the decision through a Council vote - since he left the issue with Stintz and TTC board to iron out and have a full plan. Ford continually talked about receiving the $600M in "savings" from his Eg. Scar LRT (vs. the TC plan) so he could start Sheppard. It was obviously someone who wanted to save as much as possible to funnel to Sheppard. Unfortunately for him, Stintz wanted to sabotage the Ford plan to help her own Mayoralty run. Metrolinx, as directed by their Liberal masters, wanted to defeat the plan because conservatives were gaining in popularity and a defeat of Ford would also help defeat Harper.

If Rob Ford left it with Stintz and TTC board to iron out the details, then how could he know about $600M in savings before those details are ironed out? How could he even know that there will be any savings?

Ford did secure $700M from Harper for the SSE, which he likely would have also obtained for Sheppard and pressure would have mounted for Wynne to match. This $600M savings from Eg. Scar. LRT, plus another $1B if elevated, plus $700M from Harper, plus a likely $700M matching from Wynne would have been enough to get Sheppard completed.

The Feds (Harper) were the last to come on board for SSE:
- First, the provincial funding was on the table ($1.4 billion for SLRT).
- Then, Stintz and De Baeremaeker pushed for the city property surtax in order to upgrade SLRT to subway. Rob Ford reluctantly voted "for" that surtax.
- And only after that, Rob Ford went to the Feds and, indeed, got their commitment for a share of funding.

It wouldn't work one way around.

 

[BurlOak]

If Rob Ford left it with Stintz and TTC board to iron out the details, then how could he know about $600M in savings before those details are ironed out? How could he even know that there will be any savings?

That was the argument as to why the Province wouldn't give it. It was based on the estimate at the time of the MOU, and it would only be given over when the amount was known with more certainty.