Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[MisterF]

^Go ahead and show us where this sense of betrayal is. All I've seen is reasoned debate. Other than certain forumers' silly accusations anyway.

 

[Bogtrotter]

It seems to me that despite the relative lack of bike lanes, Toronto still has more cyclists on its streets than either Chicago or Montreal.

I'm not sure if that is true, but if that is the case then it stands to reason that more lanes should be dedicated for them. Better for cars, better for bikers.. no?

 

[Tewder]

All I've seen is reasoned debate.

I'm not sure if you're being stubborn or trollish with a comment like this, but obviously you are not setting out yourself for 'reasoned debate' by taking such a stance. Sorry, not biting!

 

[MisterF]

I'm not sure if you're being stubborn or trollish with a comment like this, but obviously you are not setting out yourself for 'reasoned debate' by taking such a stance. Sorry, not biting!

Okay, I skimmed the thread again. Other than possibly a couple one off comments, there's no point where the conversation has turned into betrayal or insecurity. I do see you being down on the city and people either disagreeing with you or correcting your misconceptions. Maybe that's what you're objecting to?

Anyway, I did find something I think needs a reply...

Though I do agree that chicago has more/better skyscrapers in the downtown (though the gap is closing much faster than I ever thought possible), Toronto is a much more "urban" city in my opinion. Living in Chicago has shown me how suburban the city really is. Aside from downtown, there are literally almost ZERO clusters of urbanity, and this is clearly shown by Toronto's huge high rise lead over chicago (1 865 vs. 1 125 buildings).

A neighbourhood being low rise doesn't mean it's suburban. There are plenty of urban low rise neighbourhoods around Chicago. And Toronto for that matter. And Toronto has lots of suburban high rise clusters.

 

[taal]

Okay, I skimmed the thread again. Other than possibly a couple one off comments, there's no point where the conversation has turned into betrayal or insecurity. I do see you being down on the city and people either disagreeing with you or correcting your misconceptions. Maybe that's what you're objecting to?

Anyway, I did find something I think needs a reply...

A neighbourhood being low rise doesn't mean it's suburban. There are plenty of urban low rise neighbourhoods around Chicago. And Toronto for that matter. And Toronto has lots of suburban high rise clusters.

I'm going to echo the last comment above ... would you not consider Queen E (past the DVP where there are very few condos) or take the beaches area directly ... Queen W until recently when more and more condos have been built ... Bloor west (Bloor west west i.e. west of high park) ... Danforth ... the list really goes on, as urban ?

Chicago as similar areas as well


I'll go as far as to say this: Generally speeking, the random high rise clusters we see in the GTA are anything but urban, even the large ones i.e. SCC / MCC really aren't as well - though the later is really changing as of late (or taking many steps in the right direction).

 

[Tewder]

Okay, I skimmed the thread again. Other than possibly a couple one off comments, there's no point where the conversation has turned into betrayal or insecurity.

My comment was not related to this thread specifically but to the discourse in general, to wit:

I do see you being down on the city and people either disagreeing with you or correcting your misconceptions. Maybe that's what you're objecting to?.

Thank you for proving my point! Your insecurity leads you to view earnest criticisms or discussion as bashing the city. I mean, why not just create an 'I love Toronto and everything about it' thread and be done with it?

A neighbourhood being low rise doesn't mean it's suburban. There are plenty of urban low rise neighbourhoods around Chicago. And Toronto for that matter. And Toronto has lots of suburban high rise clusters.

Agreed, and anybody not agreeing must be a wanna-be New Yorker who is down on Toronto, right?

 

[MisterF]

To be specific, I was talking mainly about this:

Well, neighbourhoods in Toronto and surrounding areas are not exactly as 'desegregated' as you might think. The racial lines exist here as well but we are too caught up in our own propaganda bullshite to recognize it.

... and is there any doubt whatsoever that Chicago blows Toronto away in terms of food? Toronto is just about the worst major city for food, imo. Yes, there are some good places but they are generally overpriced and few and far between.

People corrected you on the false equivalency in the first point and disagreed with you on the second. Does that make them insecure? Did you expect no responses? Are people not allowed to disagree with you?

I mean, why not just create an 'I love Toronto and everything about it' thread and be done with it?

Agreed, and anybody not agreeing must be a wanna-be New Yorker who is down on Toronto, right?

You have quite the imagination.

 

[junctionist]

I'm going to echo the last comment above ... would you not consider Queen E (past the DVP where there are very few condos) or take the beaches area directly ... Queen W until recently when more and more condos have been built ... Bloor west (Bloor west west i.e. west of high park) ... Danforth ... the list really goes on, as urban ?

Chicago as similar areas as well


I'll go as far as to say this: Generally speeking, the random high rise clusters we see in the GTA are anything but urban, even the large ones i.e. SCC / MCC really aren't as well - though the later is really changing as of late (or taking many steps in the right direction).

SCC does have some urban credentials, with its high-density housing and employment around a public square and civic centre, and many buildings having retail on the ground floor. Along with MCC, it's moving towards being a suburban community that works like any old urban community, much like many of Paris' arrondissements. That's a good point though, that high-rise and high-density housing in Toronto's suburbs can be completely suburban in terms of how the community works and entirely low-rise neighbourhoods can be very urban.

 

[taal]

SCC does have some urban credentials, with its high-density housing and employment around a public square and civic centre, and many buildings having retail on the ground floor. Along with MCC, it's moving towards being a suburban community that works like any old urban community, much like many of Paris' arrondissements. That's a good point though, that high-rise and high-density housing in Toronto's suburbs can be completely suburban in terms of how the community works and entirely low-rise neighbourhoods can be very urban.

I generally leave SCC out though you make a good point. I leave SCC out because unlike many other areas in the GTA is is showing just about 0 urban aspirations in the last decade or so i.e. there's nothing being done to improve the built form of the area whatsoever. There has been some condo growth but it's been pretty week compared to MCC and now downtown Markham.

 

[PUTOTO]

and finally,

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Toronto lacks Chicago's community spirit.

 

[adma]

Toronto lacks Chicago's community spirit.

Blind eye to Chicago's slums, I see...

 

[Torontovibe]

Toronto lacks Chicago's community spirit.

In what way? What does that even mean and how does it manifest itself?

 

[Tewder]

To be specific, I was talking mainly about this:

Well why not be specific then instead of making silly accusations that waste everybody's time?

People corrected you on the false equivalency in the first point and disagreed with you on the second. Does that make them insecure? Did you expect no responses? Are people not allowed to disagree with you?

Not at all. In fact I enjoyed their responses. Nobody has to agree with me. You are the one acting childish and insecure... and again, you only just go on to prove my point:

^Go ahead and show us where this sense of betrayal is. All I've seen is reasoned debate.

Sensitive much?

Okay, I skimmed the thread again. Other than possibly a couple one off comments, there's no point where the conversation has turned into betrayal or insecurity. I do see you being down on the city and people either disagreeing with you or correcting your misconceptions. Maybe that's what you're objecting to?

My opinion is a 'misconception'. I just love your idea of 'reasoned debate'. You are adorable!

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

In what way? What does that even mean and how does it manifest itself?

Toronto is bland. Toronto is blah about everything. You get the sense people are just here to work and out for themselves.