Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[uptown]

An anecdotal support of Torontovibe's post but I personally was shocked at the level of racial segregation in New York the first time I visited it. Mind you my experiences were limited to the Island of Manhattan and Brooklyn.

Toronto and its environs are segregated too, there's not a whole lot of mixing going on in places like Rexdale, Lawrence-Heights, Weston or Malton (just to name a few)

 

[Torontovibe]

Toronto and its environs are segregated too, there's not a whole lot of mixing going on in places like Rexdale, Lawrence-Heights, Weston or Malton (just to name a few)

It's not whether people go out for a beer together. It's that people of different races live together. Of course, I'm not saying in every single neighbourhood but over-all. We all know that new immigrants always want to cluster together as a group, that's natural but people are not shoved into one corner of the city. You guys just don't get what I'm saying. Some of you people might not realize it but Toronto is very different than other cities in this regard. People have way more options here. It's so different than Chicago. In Chicago we are talking about mainly American born (second, third and fourth generation) people who are segregated. In Toronto, it's almost exclusively foreign born residents, who choose strongly ethnic neighbourhoods and even then, it's never all one ethnic group. I guess I'd have to take you on an extensive Chicago tour to show you the big difference. (and speak to black, Latino and Asian Chicagoans)

 

[toraerach]

Toronto is less racist than Chicago? Toronto had a miniscule population of blacks before the 70's, and blacks used to get turned-away from hotels in Toronto.

I don't really understand what you're getting at here. I don't think anyone's going to pretend that racism/xenophobia/other forms of discrimination have never existed in Toronto or that this city has always been comfortable with its diversity. That doesn't take away from the fact that that diversity today should be celebrated as something special.

The days of leaders like Trudeau and Sewell are long gone, I wish people would stop trying to coast on a reputation garnered from the visions and politics of over 30 years ago.

So we're just supposed to focus on racism that happened 40+ years ago instead?

Toronto and its environs are segregated too, there's not a whole lot of mixing going on in places like Rexdale, Lawrence-Heights, Weston or Malton (just to name a few)

Have you actually looked up the demographics of these areas? Here's Weston's ethnic origin figures broken down by region in the 2006 census:

European: 5,170 (31%)
British Isles: 3,600 (22%)
Caribbean: 2,575 (16%)
Other North American: 2,130 (13%)
African: 1,835 (11%)
Latin, Central & South American: 1,430 (9%)
South Asian: 1,265 (8%)
East and Southeast Asian: 1,075 (7%)
French: 685 (4%)
West Asian: 345 (2%)

Sounds like there's quite a bit of mixing going on there. In fact, the largest single ethnic group (the English) only make up ~14% of the population! And that's not at all unique to Weston - check out some of the other neighbourhood profiles and show me which parts of the city are segregated.

 

[Softee]

Despite the antics of the Ford nation, Toronto is still a far more liberal city than Chicago.

 

[Thanos]

I guess it's not surprising that it didn't take long for the old canard of "Toronto is more enlightened/progressive/less racist) than City X to be trotted-out.

Toronto just elected a mayor who might as well have campaigned on a platform of paving over parks to make parking lots, and tearing up sidewalks for additional lanes for drivers. A mayor who figures that whoever shows up at a civic meeting to address their concerns about proposed cuts is some jobless layabout.

Toronto just contributed in a big way to the electoral success of a federal government led by a man who figures tax dollars that aren't being spent on incarceration or toys for the military to ward-off imaginary Russian designs on the Canadian Arctic are wasted tax dollars.

Toronto is probably going to contribute to the electoral success of a provincial government led by a man whose grand ideas about civic engagement are limited to promises of cheap beer and chain gangs.

Toronto is less racist than Chicago? Toronto had a miniscule population of blacks before the 70's, and blacks used to get turned-away from hotels in Toronto.

Chicago is the home of Obama, and the mayor is some guy who worked on his campaign. I'll bet he didn't have a redneck talking about bike-riding pinkos at his investiture...

The days of leaders like Trudeau and Sewell are long gone, I wish people would stop trying to coast on a reputation garnered from the visions and politics of over 30 years ago.

It seems to me you have a political agenda. So let me get this straight, Liberal party can do no wrong but the PC can do no right?

 

[uptown]

Nope, but everyone seems to feel the need to suggest that Toronto is some ultra progressive place when electoral history shows otherwise. Now we're hearing that Toronto is "far more liberal than Chicago in spite of the antics of Ford nation" yup, uh huh. Why can't people acknowledge that there are positive attributes to cities out there without insecure people turning it into a circle jerk about how great Toronto supposedly is by comparison (someone even said Toronto is "100 times cleaner than Chicago" and I learned that people in Chicago are "big" and "dress like slobs" ). I'm tired of the hypocrisy of privileged people who pretend this is a utopia and consider themselves experts on diversity and claim to know what it's like for minorities because they eat samosas and sushi once in a while. I don't see how people can claim Torontonians are magically "less racist" than those evil Chicagoans. Cities don't improve if they're populated by smug people who plug their ears and go "la-la-la" whenever it's suggested that other cities might have lessons to teach.

 

[Softee]

The Toronto ridings that were won by conservatives were the victims of left-wing vote splitting, the combined votes for the liberal and NDP candidates in those ridings was far higher then the number of votes for the conservative candidate. The ridings that were won by the conservatives still lean largely to the left, as does the city as a whole. Toronto is most certainly a more liberal/left leaning city than Chicago, to suggest otherwise is just plain silly. Chicago is democratic, but it is not particularly liberal.

 

[adma]

Look at it this way. White Torontonians wouldn't necessarily get the willies riding on a 90% nonwhite bus. White Chicagoans would.

 

[Automation Gallery]

I was attending a convention at McCormick place in 2007 and a group of us decided to check out White Castle which was about a ten minute walk. I can tell you that I didn't feel very safe even during the day. The poverty concentration in Chicago is absolutely astounding.

I'm not sure of the exact statistics but back in the late 1980's and early 1990's, Chicago was getting upwards of 900 homicides per year. Yes, 900. Toronto's all-time high is like 91 I believe. I mean yes downtown Chicago and the waterfront are impressive but there are numerous underlying social and racial problems within that city which make it far inferior to Toronto. Only time will tell how they are resolved.

Chicago can't be better than The Big Smoke, if you don't feel safe.

Under the gun: Murder in Chicago and Toronto

It's been a summer of gun violence in Chicago. Non-stop shootings. Weekends with 4 or 5 murders, but that's nothing new. Just a long, hot summer in a big city, right?

Today we begin a week-long series comparing gun violence in Chicago with what goes on in another big city, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The two cities are the same size, but their gun violence rates are very different.

We're going to spend a fair bit of time in Toronto this week with gun owners, police officers and politicians--to see what we might learn from our neighbors to the north. We begin in a poor community in north Toronto called Rexdale.

The Pro-tech media center is in a somewhat rundown strip mall.

It sits between a storefront medical office and a "Money Mart," the Canadian version of a currency exchange.

More......http://www.wbez.org/story/under-gun-murder-chicago-and-toronto-89879#

 

[Tewder]

I still fail to see the point of this comparison. Toronto is better at some things than Chicago and vice versa, surely. Shouldn't the point be to look at what we don't do so well so as to learn from other places like Chicago? In terms of gun violence it sounds as if Chicago is taking a look at Toronto. Great! We need to evolve to a point here where we can criticize aspects of Toronto, or compare and contrast, without a sense of betrayal or insecurity... and if not within the relatively enlightened context of UT than where?

The number one asset or advantage that Toronto has over Chicago, or over almost anywhere else you can think of really, is potential. Part of this potential is to be realized organically but part of it needs to be somewhat deliberate by looking at the standards set in other places and striving for better, or at least par. If we are to persist in these Toronto vs. Chicago/Montreal or wherever exercises we need to do it within the framework of potential and from a 'are we moving towards it or away from it' perspective. This is constructive. Anything else is pretty pointless really.

 

[taal]

I made this post in a Chicago photo thread.

It was in response to a comment that suggested Toronto's public realm (i.e. sidewalks / lights / ...) was not only worse then Chicago, but most other cities.
I completely agreed but ...

Yep, completely agreed ... it's not just Chicago ... though they do a great job there.

Though, again from recent visits I do agree with the comments a couple posts above, for all the negatives, I haven't found many cities that reach the level of vibrancy and diversity we have (no, not people wise .......) - though the architecture was amazing and it was quite busy throughout I reached a conclusion that I'd still rather live here, yet visit other cities If that makes any sense.

I'm not sure where / how Toronto get's it's vibrancy given the deplorable state of our public realm (really, it's true, compared to most other cities) yet we tend to be more animated then most ..... my conclusion here is simply that most people just don't care unfortunately or fortunately ...

Having said all this I have huge hope / expectations for east / bayfront and the rest of the waterfront ... anyone that checks out the built form around corus quay / the new parks will be blown away, as it's something that you'd expect in Chicago, and even then it would be quite something for them to have built it. Let's just hope this continues ... but of course this isn't downtown so ...

Great photos btw ! I agree with the comments above that most people tend to focus on the above ground pictures for Chicago (unlike Toronto really) and it's a shame too !

Anyway I'm curious how others feel about this ... i.e. my conclusion that the majority (even those that live downtown) just don't care ... a good example is bloor street, a lot of people I ask say it's a lot nicer, but they didn't mind it before either (which was terrible btw) ...

 

[RC8]

I avoided Bloor Street before. It was such a horrible street. It still is and I still do avoid it in the areas it wasn't revitalised.

Agreed about the Toronto vibrancy. Maybe it's just a matter of having more young people than other equivalent cities (do we?), but Toronto is by far the most vibrant city I've visited in many ways.

 

[taal]

I avoided Bloor Street before. It was such a horrible street. It still is and I still do avoid it in the areas it wasn't revitalised.

Agreed about the Toronto vibrancy. Maybe it's just a matter of having more young people than other equivalent cities (do we?), but Toronto is by far the most vibrant city I've visited in many ways.

Well why did you avoid it ? The general state of repair / the public infrastructure ?
Because again most *normal* people I ask just don't seem to care. Yes, we're all not normal

When they go to other cities, they comment how nice a given park is, or a building. But I rarely hear, oh the sidewalks were really clean - though if I ask them specifically about it they do so say 'Yea good point, it was a lot nicer then Toronto but I never really noticed / cared'. Which isn't a good thing and clearly enough of us do care.

 

[gabe]

While Ford is busy ripping up bike lanes over in Chicago the city is installing protected bike lanes!!!

CDOT said the bike lanes on Kinzie are already having a big effect on bike usage in the city — 48 percent of morning traffic at the southbound intersection of Milwaukee and Kinzie last week was bikes, they said. There have also been 60 percent more bike riders at the intersection when compared to the morning rush last year, they said.

“That’s exactly the kind of change we’re hoping to achieve,†Klein said in a statement.

The Chicago mayor as said he want's Chicago to be the best big city for bicycling in the United States,"

http://media.chicagojournal.com/photos/Publication/Article/2444-2.jpg

 

[taal]

While Ford is busy ripping up bike lanes over in Chicago the city is installing protected bike lanes!!!

CDOT said the bike lanes on Kinzie are already having a big effect on bike usage in the city — 48 percent of morning traffic at the southbound intersection of Milwaukee and Kinzie last week was bikes, they said. There have also been 60 percent more bike riders at the intersection when compared to the morning rush last year, they said.

“That’s exactly the kind of change we’re hoping to achieve,” Klein said in a statement.

The Chicago mayor as said he want's Chicago to be the best big city for bicycling in the United States,"

http://media.chicagojournal.com/photos/Publication/Article/2444-2.jpg

umm to be fair that's what Ford is pushing for too ... not to be the best that is but for dedicated bike lanes ...

Which I personally think are silly anyway.