Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[gabe]

Of course non cyclists find it silly. When you're biking and you have idiots double parked or driving in the bike lanes it's not such bad idea. Drivers still haven't got the hint you can't drive in bike lanes. Protected bike lanes work great in Amsterdam and other parts of Europe.

 

[Automation Gallery]

While Ford is busy ripping up bike lanes

Nothing has been ripped up yet I think you forgot to mention, and adding others...

 

[taal]

Of course non cyclists find it silly. When you're biking and you have idiots double parked or driving in the bike lanes it's not such bad idea. Drivers still haven't got the hint you can't drive in bike lanes. Protected bike lanes work great in Amsterdam and other parts of Europe.

I bike, and quite often ... double parked is such a rare occurenece ... my alternative is this ... no bike lanes at all. I've really never had any problems biking on just about all streets downtowns beside cars ! Most drivers are very respectful as well ...

Seriously, why the need for bike lanes period ?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I still fail to see the point of this comparison. Toronto is better at some things than Chicago and vice versa, surely. Shouldn't the point be to look at what we don't do so well so as to learn from other places like Chicago? In terms of gun violence it sounds as if Chicago is taking a look at Toronto. Great! We need to evolve to a point here where we can criticize aspects of Toronto, or compare and contrast, without a sense of betrayal or insecurity... and if not within the relatively enlightened context of UT than where?

The number one asset or advantage that Toronto has over Chicago, or over almost anywhere else you can think of really, is potential. Part of this potential is to be realized organically but part of it needs to be somewhat deliberate by looking at the standards set in other places and striving for better, or at least par. If we are to persist in these Toronto vs. Chicago/Montreal or wherever exercises we need to do it within the framework of potential and from a 'are we moving towards it or away from it' perspective. This is constructive. Anything else is pretty pointless really.

I agree. Right now though, Chicago is a better city. Even Ford knows this.

 

[Roots_Energize]

I bike, and quite often ... double parked is such a rare occurenece ... my alternative is this ... no bike lanes at all. I've really never had any problems biking on just about all streets downtowns beside cars ! Most drivers are very respectful as well ...

Seriously, why the need for bike lanes period ?

Bike lanes are needed because it helps to create a biking culture in the city, many people dont feel safe so if you build cylcling infrastructure ,more people will bike. If you build it they will come. Cars have lanes, pedestrians have side walks, streetcars and buses have dedicated lanes, subways have there own tunnels and bridges, so it just makes sense to create a place for cyclist. Some drivers get angry that people bike on the road, pedestrians get angry when bikers go on the side walk, so the seperate lanes for biking creates a sense of place and helps to establish biking as a credible mode of transportation in the minds of the population.
people coming from cities with lots of seperate bike lanes are use to it and often find it strange coming to a city with none at all, it sends out a message that this city is not bike freindly and that your not welcome.

 

[Torontovibe]

Bike lanes are needed because it helps to create a biking culture in the city, many people don't feel safe so if you build cycling infrastructure ,more people will bike. If you build it they will come. Cars have lanes, pedestrians have side walks, streetcars and buses have dedicated lanes, subways have there own tunnels and bridges, so it just makes sense to create a place for cyclist. Some drivers get angry that people bike on the road, pedestrians get angry when bikers go on the side walk, so the seperate lanes for biking creates a sense of place and helps to establish biking as a credible mode of transportation in the minds of the population.
people coming from cities with lots of seperate bike lanes are use to it and often find it strange coming to a city with none at all, it sends out a message that this city is not bike freindly and that your not welcome.

I'm one of those people who used to bike all the time when I lived in Montreal. (always on the separated bike lanes) I biked in Toronto for a week when I moved here but after having a few close calls, I stopped. One bad driver is all it takes to end your life and I am not taking that risk until we get the separated cycling lanes. I still have my bike in storage but I haven't used it once in 10 years. I look foreword to putting it back into service but only on safe, bike lanes with the protection of a separated cycling lane.

 

[taal]

I'm one of those people who used to bike all the time when I lived in Montreal. (always on the separated bike lanes) I biked in Toronto for a week when I moved here but after having a few close calls, I stopped. One bad driver is all it takes to end your life and I am not taking that risk until we get the separated cycling lanes. I still have my bike in storage but I haven't used it once in 10 years. I look foreword to putting it back into service but only on safe, bike lanes with the protection of a separated cycling lane.

I dunno, maybe I'm just lucky and haven't had an experience like that yet ... but in so many countries around the world bikes and cars mix together all the time, with nothing resembling a bike lane either.

So you're not only asking for bike lanes, but separated ones, as I really don't believe the lines of paint do much to increase safety, particularly at intersections where I'm sure most of the accidents happen.

 

[Bogtrotter]

There seems to be more of a bike vs car mentality in Toronto for some reason, perhaps because the city is more typically North American than MTL. Aren't some of the bike lanes in Montreal separated by a raised median? I seem to recall seeing that on my last visit.

 

[Softee]

It seems to me that despite the relative lack of bike lanes, Toronto still has more cyclists on its streets than either Chicago or Montreal.

 

[Tewder]

There seems to be more of a bike vs car mentality in Toronto for some reason, perhaps because the city is more typically North American than MTL. Aren't some of the bike lanes in Montreal separated by a raised median? I seem to recall seeing that on my last visit.

Everything in Toronto seems to be an 'either/or' battle, with stalemate the result... which when you come to think of it is sort of the problem. There isn't one single collective 'idea' in Toronto that defines anything of a direction. I can't think of another city that is like this.

 

[taal]

Everything in Toronto seems to be an 'either/or' battle, with stalemate the result... which when you come to think of it is sort of the problem. There isn't one single collective 'idea' in Toronto that defines anything of a direction. I can't think of another city that is like this.

I seriously have no idea what you're talking about ... please elaborate.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I seriously have no idea what you're talking about ... please elaborate.

The fact we always have to choose one side and not find compromise.

 

[MisterF]

We need to evolve to a point here where we can criticize aspects of Toronto, or compare and contrast, without a sense of betrayal or insecurity... and if not within the relatively enlightened context of UT than where?

I honestly can't figure out where you get these ideas. People here complain about Toronto and praise other cities every day. Ever read the local papers? Or this forum for that matter? You say we should acknowledge that some cities are better at certain things while Toronto is better at others when that's exactly what people are doing (while correcting misconceptions). This sense of betrayal you're talking about is completely imaginary.

 

[taal]

The fact we always have to choose one side and not find compromise.

We compromise all the time .... sure it doesn't seem that way in the media but that's the case in all cities. For those who actually participate in such debates a lot of people provide input (stakeholders not just random angry citizens about some view being ruined) ... generally when council votes on something they're just voting on a final product that full time staff members (not politicians that come and go) work long and hard on.

That's not to say politicians can't influence, they do all the time ...

 

[Tewder]

I honestly can't figure out where you get these ideas. People here complain about Toronto and praise other cities every day. Ever read the local papers? Or this forum for that matter?

...indeed, and witness all the time how often an honest discussion gets mired in issues of city 'self-esteem'.

This sense of betrayal you're talking about is completely imaginary.

... and your denial of it is completely delusional.