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to-enthusiast
Banned
Having lived there for two years in the very recent past, I can say with certainty that Taiwan is not authoritarian or communist. I can also say with certainty that both MRT systems in Taiwan, in Taipei and Kaohsiung, are absolutely amazing, keeping in mind that they're both very new. Taipei's underground rail system is consistently ranked as one of the best in the world, and that's probably because their non-authoritarian, non-communist government pumped 10's of billions of dollars into it over the past 2 decades. If you ever have the chance to visit, do yourself a favour and take the MRT, which is truly the better way.
TTC12
Active Member
There has been a question on how the new TR's are going to sound like, so I think I found a pretty good source. Transit toronto says that they'll use Bombardier MITRAC for the train propulsion
Well I found a train that uses Bombardier MITRAC and this is what it sounds like:
[video=youtube;x2wbZQBxPf4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2wbZQBxPf4[/video]
Well I found a train that uses Bombardier MITRAC and this is what it sounds like:
[video=youtube;x2wbZQBxPf4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2wbZQBxPf4[/video]
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noctis
Active Member
thanks for the info! lets just say that i have zero knowledge of how trains work, so this is news for me lol
nfitz
Superstar
Currently, perhaps ... but most of the Metro lines in Tapei started construction when before it was a democracy. You can hardly say that there is a long history of democracitc institutions there. It's not a fair comparison to compare Toronto to such places. There are plenty of other places that Toronto can be compared to.
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to-enthusiast
Banned
Actually, construction started after Taiwan made it's official shift to democracy, so...yeah....
The real point is, whether you're an authoritarian communist regime or a liberal democracy, you at least deserve credit for recognizing the importance of spending a whole whack of government cash on public transit. And there really is no reason not to compare Toronto's subway system to Taipei. Once a governing body is elected in this country it can essentially do as it pleases as long as it has a majority in the house backing it, which is at best a fairly flimsy representation of the majority of the disparate wishes of the populace. It's not as if we're always having referendums on who gets money for what, and it would have been no different in Taiwan when construction started on the MRT in Taipei (which started during the modern democratic era).
Like many have said before me, our federal government should be subsidizing the TTC. I apologize for this being wildly off topic.... My second and last post on the matter, I swear.
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nfitz
Superstar
... but before they actually had an election, so no. It takes years to decades to generations for institutions and people to adjust to an open government. The situation is not comparable.
Why should it? We have a federal system of government. Urban affairs and transit have always been provincial issues. The province should certainly be providing more funding; but I don't see why the federal government should have any involvement. They had no involvement in either Montreal or Toronto during the huge transit expansion in those cities in the 1960s and 1970s.
to-enthusiast
Banned
Regardless of where they were on the 'open government' continuum, as I said before, it doesn't take a nasty ol' enlightened authoritarian to figure out that public transit should be a priority for government.
The provincial government intends to shell out about $11 billion for Transit City over the next 10 years, with the hopes that the federal government will contribute the remaining third of the cost of the project. The Harper government hasn't provided any inclination that this is something they would support, which is a stance I would assume you agree with. I guess we shouldn't have to rely on the federal government to prop up the transit system of the largest city in the country, which also happens to be its economic engine. What does Toronto do for Canada anyway? Nothing, probably.
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nfitz
Superstar
I think asking the federal government to fund something they've traditionally never funded was highly ingenious. But $11-billion? Where do you get that? I count $7.8-billion of provincial funding committed and $317-million in federal funding committed.
Because then we have to rely on the federal government - which will always be iffy. The provincial government needs to own up to it's responsibilities and stop passing the buck. It's not like the federal government is handing out huge transit spending to other Canadian cities.
to-enthusiast
Banned
I was referring, erroneously, to the Move Ontario 2020 plan, which is wider in scope. Still, $317 million is hardly commensurate for Transit City.
I think that the economic and environmental benefits of investing in public transit on such a wide scale should make this a priority for all levels of government. After all, the federal government has committed proportionate funds to the Pacific Gateway project. What makes this so different?
I think that the economic and environmental benefits of investing in public transit on such a wide scale should make this a priority for all levels of government. After all, the federal government has committed proportionate funds to the Pacific Gateway project. What makes this so different?
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nfitz
Superstar
It is compared to federal transit funding elsewhere. They've also 1/3 funded the Mississauga transitway, the Spadina expressway extension, Union Station renovations, York VIVA expansion, etc. Compare to any other region in Canada. We've already got more than can be expected, without a completely different federal policy on the funding of junior levels of government. I think writing a new constitution is out of our scope here ...
golodhendil
Active Member
Before they had a presidential election, but long after they had elections for their legislatures and local governments.
to-enthusiast
Banned
Ah, yes, a new constitution, exactly as I had suggested.
At any rate, I'd be interested to see where the feds have put their money in the past with regard to regional transit activites, aside from the Pacific Gateway project I mentioned earlier. I wonder if we could quantify "more than can be expected". We are living in the most densely populated area of Canada, after all - our public transit needs aren't going to be level with other regions.
TTC12
Active Member
I think we're getting a bit off topic here... I'm sure there is another thread more appropiate for these conversations. This is just me, but I want this thread updated when there's something directly concerning the TR's. Sometimes its annoying to see replies that don't give any info on the trains or something more relecant to them...
to-enthusiast
Banned
Can't dispute the fact that we're way off topic, but hey, it's fun to talk about things organically, as they come up. But yes, I'll re-honour my broken promise of many replies ago and let the matter rest. (Although if there is another place for this conversation to live, that would be cool, too.)