The world's most liveable cities—Toronto #15, Vancouver #4

[jaborandi]

I haven't been to that many places but Vancouver is one of them and since I went last summer, I've been saying that if I had been raised anywhere other than Toronto, I'd move to Van City.

So not over-hyped!

Or, at least, may I ask, why you think so?

Although very beautiful, Vancouver is a cultural backwater which I quickly discovered when I moved there. The pace is maddeningly slow. But they do have fantastic rhododendrons. I might move back when I'm dead.

 

[Archivist]

Apart from the general laughableness of this (and other such) lists, there's the whole problem of treating cities like consumer items. The reasons for loving a city are often quite personal and may reflect many intangibles that cannot be measured in lists like these. They are basically very funny.

The comments above about Ottawa and Berlin gave me a good bellylaugh. I used to live in the Glebe, so many years ago. I quite liked Ottawa, though its pleasures are quite different from Toronto and I'm much happier here.

 

[Mystic Point]

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I hear Toronto is where you go after you die.

 

[Anth]

Although very beautiful, Vancouver is a cultural backwater which I quickly discovered when I moved there. The pace is maddeningly slow. But they do have fantastic rhododendrons. I might move back when I'm dead.

Ahaha, I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Therion]

I dont know about that, but anyways i would take Barcelona anytime over Ottawa......Ahh the architecture, weather, beaches, nightlife, and dont forget the 5 week a year paid vacation time they are allowed.

don't forget that Spain now has 20% unemployment. So 1 out of every 5 Barcelonans is barely scraping by. That might affect it's ranking. Also, their housing collapsed even worse than in the U.S., so people are a lot poorer. All that delicious tapas ain't worth crap if you can't afford it.

 

[Felino]

don't forget that Spain now has 20% unemployment. So 1 out of every 5 Barcelonans is barely scraping by. That might affect it's ranking. Also, their housing collapsed even worse than in the U.S., so people are a lot poorer. All that delicious tapas ain't worth crap if you can't afford it.

Spain's unemployment is very high, not 20% but I get your point.

Still, Ottawa is fecking shite. Vancouver is one big party compared to ugly and boring Ottawa.

 

[UserNameToronto]

Spain's unemployment is very high, not 20% but I get your point.

Per the May 9-15 edition of the Economist, Spain's unemployment rate is 17.4%, predicted to peak at 20.5%, roughly 2x the EUR27 average ( http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13611650 ).

As an aside, I love how these threads invariably attract comments that ignore methodology. "How can you say Kiev doesn't have skyscrapers? The food is incredible, there's no crime and the art scene is fantastic!"

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Economist has Toronto #4 (Vancouver #1, Calgary #6)

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2009/06/liveable_vancouver.cfm?Fsrc=glvrnwl

More grist for the mill. FWIW, these seem relatively reasonable rankings to me.

 

[Roy G Biv]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2009/06/liveable_vancouver.cfm?Fsrc=glvrnwl

More grist for the mill. FWIW, these seem relatively reasonable rankings to me.

Really? They seem rather ridiculous to me... and bias towards North American cities.

Can someone explain why Toronto/Calgary/Vancouver would be higher than Munich? Or Paris? Or Dusseldorf?

These cities have far better arts, health-care, and public transportation.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I think the most fundamental characteristic of what makes a city liveable is opportunity. Does a place provide opportunity for people at all levels of human endeavour and levels of competitiveness? The place could be dull as anything and ugly as sin but ultimately people will choose to live in a place that provides them with opportunity. This is something I think we need to keep in mind because there is often an inverse relationship between characteristics we may believe to be good and their impact on opportunities available to the population.

 

[Roy G Biv]

I think the most fundamental characteristic of what makes a city liveable is opportunity. Does a place provide opportunity for people at all levels of human endeavour and levels of competitiveness? The place could be dull as anything and ugly as sin but ultimately people will choose to live in a place that provides them with opportunity. This is something I think we need to keep in mind because there is often an inverse relationship between characteristics we may believe to be good and their impact on opportunities available to the population.

Interesting view-point, but can "opportunity" be quantified? I doubt it.

 

[Whoaccio]

Interesting view-point, but can "opportunity" be quantified? I doubt it.

You can, but you just have to be specific about what kind of opportunities. One of the most relevant tends to be career opportunities, so if unemployment is double digit, it indicates that a large portion of the city doesn't have good career options. Basically any macroeconomic measure is a way of quantifying economic opportunities of a city. If you wanted to quantify educational opportunity, you could look at the number of spaces at tertiary institutions or performance of the local schools. Aspiring hipsters would asses the quantity of local indie-rock bands and microbreweries located in reclaimed heritage buildings in former industrial sites. You can quantify pretty much everything.

 

[wonderboy416]

Political stability, security, air pollution, schools, supermarkets, environment and transport rank highly. Cutting-edge culture, architecture and excitement count for relatively little."

Air pollution must have done in most major asian cities (although a few from Japan snuck in). In my limited experience they have vastly superior transportation systems (subway, commuter rail, bus) then North American cities, have virtually zero crime when compared to N.A., have quality schools and good, affordable access to healthcare. Not to mention the countless supermarkets and street vendors selling every kind of fruit and veggie imaginable, there's several on every block it seems.

If those are the measures taken by the survey they I would have to say that a number of large asian cities must destroy Toronto (Japanese, South Korean, Chinese, Singapore etc) except for the sometimes nasty air.

I always find these surveys quite funny.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Obviously, EIU disagrees with you.

Really? They seem rather ridiculous to me... and bias towards North American cities.

Can someone explain why Toronto/Calgary/Vancouver would be higher than Munich? Or Paris? Or Dusseldorf?

These cities have far better arts, health-care, and public transportation.

According to the article, they ranked the cities on '30 factors across 5 areas: stability, healthcare, culture and environment, education, and infrastructure.'

You didn't actually say that you think Paris is more liveable than Toronto? Paris is my favourite city on the planet. My wife is a Parisienne. Paris is fabulous -- but liveable? No way.

I've never been to Dusseldorf, but I enjoyed Munich and love Paris. Munich I could see living in (I was there for a job interview and part of the reason to go was to see if Munich was a place I would live -- my answer was definitely yes), but it's a much smaller burg than T.O. It probably lost points due to size.

 

[Archivist]

Air pollution must have done in most major asian cities (although a few from Japan snuck in). In my limited experience they have vastly superior transportation systems (subway, commuter rail, bus) then North American cities, have virtually zero crime when compared to N.A., have quality schools and good, affordable access to healthcare. Not to mention the countless supermarkets and street vendors selling every kind of fruit and veggie imaginable, there's several on every block it seems.

If those are the measures taken by the survey they I would have to say that a number of large asian cities must destroy Toronto (Japanese, South Korean, Chinese, Singapore etc) except for the sometimes nasty air.

I always find these surveys quite funny.

A bit ironic to hear that Asian cities have good schools, after last year.

My experience is that Japanese cities have many of the qualities you mention. I do not believe that most other Asian cities have good access to healthcare (in China, there is very little access, I understand). Their crime rates are low, especially in Japan, but in China most crime seems to be done by the party and there is no recourse for that kind of activity. I would rather live in a place with a functioning justice system, as well.

Frankly, I haven't seen an Asian city that I would prefer to Toronto. Seoul came closest, I guess, there was something about it that I really cared for a great deal. But they tend to be a bit ugly as well.